Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum  

Go Back   Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum > GasGas Enduro Technical Forums > Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust)

Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:53 PM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 170
Default 400-450 ECU Whats the Dif??

Awhile back I expressed my dissatisfaction with the EFI on my 04 450. It did not seem to have any upper end gusto. I had bought the bike used and I really didn't know what to expect performance wise except it was lighter than MY DRZ and it supposedly had 15 hp more. However, it didn't have the top end zip of my DRZ so I chalked it up to the fact that my DRZ had a much better exhaust sys and top end wise the GG was restricted.

So Today I replaced my ECU. My old one had a 400cc label on it but I didn't think much of it since it was the same part as the 450 ECU. My goodness, what a difference. I've been riding my GG for 8 months and I've been missing out on some serious upper end performance.

So my question is are the 450 ECUs programed that much differently than the 400 ECU or did I just have a bad ECU. It seemed to work well but just not as well as todays replacement. If it's just programming, can I send the old one out to have it reprogrammed?

Tony


Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:12 PM
slocalspode's Avatar
slocalspode slocalspode is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Kalifornia
Posts: 450
Default

Damn, well there goes my chance to "show you a wheel"
on my EC250SM... if we were ever to do a SuperMoto canyon
ride.

Enjoy your new found power and rejoice!

I guess this picture may be the only time I'll
get close enough for you to see my bike.

If you do ever make it down to So-Cal let me know
as I have a friend with an 05 FSE450SM and you
could see how your bike runs compared to his.
Cheers, Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:19 PM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 170
Default

Oh, Jeff.
I like your bike and it looks like you do too. But, oh..it has black wheels. Whenever I do come down to LA it's the back way 58 to 33 to Ojai to Santa Paula to LA on the 405. For that ride it's always a Jag or my CBR. None the less, next time I'm down I'll notify you in advance.

Oh, about your friend is his set up for SM as well? I haven't put the 14T front sprocket on yet. I'm still running the 13-36 and it's about perfect. I'd like to switch to 14-38 when I get a chance. You mentioned you were putting a 14 on the front but I didn't see any followup on how it was working out for you.

I have a 450 blown motor on it's way to me this week, I'm going to see what I can do with a 500cc GG barrel and an aftermarket stroker kit to bring it up to 550cc. Just seems like a nice project.

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:42 AM
GMP's Avatar
GMP GMP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jefferson Twp., NJ
Posts: 7,597
Default

From what I hear, related to Magnetti Marelli ECUs used on Ducatis anyway, is that the part of the flash memory that contains the map is locked, and no commonly available software tool is able to modify the map itself. The tool I have just adjusts trim, reads codes, etc. Now, Desmoworks, a Ducati performance parts supplier, has recently acquired a tool and the knowledge to reflash a stock, Euro 3 compliant ECU to race specs, or any specs desired, for $400. So, its likely physically possible to do it, but unlikely that you will find someone who can. My guess is GasGas just gets these production ECUs from Mag Marelli pre-flashed to spec. Since the EFI is open loop, an eaiser solution might be one of the relatively cheap piggy back units like the Powercard, that will let you add % increases in fuel in different RPM ranges. I had one on my VRod and it worked very well.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:23 AM
slocalspode's Avatar
slocalspode slocalspode is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Kalifornia
Posts: 450
Default

Yes I did install the 14 tooth counter shaft sprocket. Posted pictures here:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4094
So far it has worked great. I have no complaints.
It did not change the overall gearing as much as I thought it would.
It moved my "smooth cruise zone" from about 43mph to about 48-50mph.
On the ride from the above picture. We did an 84 miles round trip to the
Rock Store Cafe in Malibu Ca. Most of it it high gear doing from 40-50mph.
When I got back I still had around 1/2 tank of gas. Pretty amazing fuel
mileage I must say. To say I might be able to get 130-150 miles out of an
IMS oversize tank sounds surprising even to me.
The "show you a wheel" comment was a reference to racing you in the
canyons. With you new power band I would'nt be able to keep up...
Yes my friend with the FSE has his SuperMotard'ed. It was a stock Enduro
model that he bought stock GasGas SM wheels for. He is still running the
stock front rotor as he could not find one in the US.
Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:17 AM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 170
Default

Glen, thanks for the info.
I remember reading on this site that most of the flash was locked but, I was wondering if there should be that much difference between the ECUs unless my original one was in some way broken or altered. The origional was from a 400 and the replacement was from a 450. Both have the same part # yet it changed the performance dramatically. Since the bike is set up for SM I did a top speed test. With original ECU top end 90 with new 100. That's quite a difference. And most amazingly the new ECU also lowered my idle down and made the difference between economy mode and performance mode very noticeable. Since both have the same part# I assume the differences between the 2 are part of the memory that is adjustable. So I was wondering without a GG dealer anywhere near me how I could have the old ECU adjusted. Would I need to bring the bike or just send the ECU and have the dealer set it up with a bike he had in his shop?

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-07-2009, 10:00 AM
GMP's Avatar
GMP GMP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jefferson Twp., NJ
Posts: 7,597
Default

Tony,

Don't put too much weight in GG part#s. Likely that part # is the same because it reflects the hardware. The 2-stroke CDIs are like this as well. I would say the maps are different, the new one being specific to the 450 and as expected it runs better. Just like jetting. What is able to be adjusted is just the trim setting. This is a fine injector pulse width adjustment. Since its a fixed time adjustment, it has much more effect at idle and cruise (smaller pulse widths) than at higher demand conditions (larger pulse widths). Think of it like a pilot jet. This should be adjusted though, as well as the TPS reset to establish a reference in the new ECU. This could also be part of the performance difference, along with mapping differences. If your going to do any amount of work on the bike, I would suggest getting the VDST-Standard from Technoresearch ($200). For your 550 project, you will need additional fuel management like the Powercard or Techlusion as the stock map is likely inadequate. Again, just like jetting.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-07-2009, 11:05 AM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 170
Default

Thanks for the Help.

If it wasn't for me changing the ECU I would have never known how good it could work. I was so disillusioned with the EFI I was just going to go with a 41mm FCR on my project motor.

Again,thanks

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-07-2009, 11:30 AM
GMP's Avatar
GMP GMP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jefferson Twp., NJ
Posts: 7,597
Default

Quote:
I was so disillusioned with the EFI I was just going to go with a 41mm FCR on my project motor.
You still have ignition to deal with though.

The piggyback units can only add fuel, but since the OEM maps are generally lean, and it will now be a 550, this should not be a problem. Really, to do it right requires a wide band O2 sensor and AFR meter.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-07-2009, 12:59 PM
rpduc rpduc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 419
Default

Kinda off topic, but here's the new "hot" set-up for Ducs. Too bad there isn't something similar for the EFI dirt bikes. Totally reprogrammable. I think Glenn needs one on that Hyper...

http://www.mmcompsys.com/motorsportsengine.html

There are endorsements on that page from two of our local tuners Doug Lofgren and Fred Snyder.
__________________
Ross
'05 MC 250
'91 Husky 610wxe
'04 Duc M800 R.I.P
'06 Duc S2r 1000 R.I.P
'07 Duc S2r 1000 still rubber side down...
----------------------------------------------------------
May be so... May be not so...

My Website
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Could someone smart tell me whats going on? dank Enduro Intake/Carburetion - 2 stroke 10 04-16-2010 07:46 PM
Whats in your tool bag? sierrarider General Discussions & Announcements 4 11-21-2008 05:58 PM
whats it worth... now mountain thumper General Discussions & Announcements 1 09-01-2008 12:46 PM
Can't get S-12s Whats next best pursang General Discussions & Announcements 10 08-27-2007 04:02 PM
EC 250 VS EC 300 Whats the Diff?? FFRDave Enduro Engine - 2 stroke 14 03-07-2007 12:42 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009 - GasGasRider.org