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Enduro Engine - 2 stroke Cylinder, Piston, Tranny, Bearings, Clutch, Pipes & Silencers, etc.


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Old 08-07-2019, 02:47 PM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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Default Severe clutch problem EC 300 2019

After I had squealing/juddering problems I replaced the friction and steel plates plus I installed a Rekluse basket, the same that is used on the 2018 GP models.
While the squealing is gone another problem appeared and is getting worse.

My bike always had a slight clutch drag which didn't change with the new clutch. Today, after riding about 25 minutes I took a rest in the shadow for about 2 minutes. Started the bike and when I put first (or second) gear in it immediately leaped forward and died. I then tried to re-start it in gear but it immediately wanted to roll away and died. I tried this about ten times but no joy. Then let it idle for about a minute and whacked the throttle a few times the problem was gone.

It did that several times but I was unable to find out why. It did it with the engine warm, cold and hot. It was worst when I shut off the engine for a minute or two. It would not do it when the engine stalled and I immediately started it (in gear). As I had an identical bike at hand I found some differences.

On my bike the clutch pull is definitely lighter as on my friends bike.

When on both bikes the clutch levers are adjusted as far as possible from the bars and I pull the lever fully in, I can release the lever a tad more than half an inch on my friends bike and nothing happens but on mine it would almost immediately leap forward when releasing the lever just a hair from the bars...

So I think his slave cylinder moves the pushrod further than mine, the question is why.
I bled the system twice. First time as usual, second time with slave off the bike and piston fully pushed back. But nothing changed

What is confusing me is the parts fiche that shows the slave cylinder AND an o-ring with part number ME25632024. Where should that o-ring sit?

I also saw one drop of hydraulic oil coming from the gap between piston and cylinder when I pushed the piston fully back, but it seems the system does not lose oil. When I had the slave off I did not see an o-ring like in the parts fiche but I saw a black, flat rubber (?) between piston and cylinder.

I am stumped, so ordered a new slave for testing.

Any ideas?



Last edited by Doc Brown; 08-07-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:05 PM
Jacob 'Berg Jacob 'Berg is offline
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Is this the first ride on the new clutch pack and basket?

Were all steel clutch plates installed facing the correct direction?

Worn shaft end?

Slave may have a small leak and may not leak enough to notice, but may pulling air into the system. Or, maybe you just need to bleed the system again.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:18 PM
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Gasser Nate Gasser Nate is online now
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It 100% sounds like it has not been bled properly. The lighter lever plus releasing as soon as it is off the bars points at this. New plates always drag when new. They need bedding in just like brake pads and discs. Bleed the system again, you can try reverse bleeding and give the clutch a few good hard slips and it will probably come good.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:51 AM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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@Jacob:

No, I already rode the bike for 3 hours in easy terrain last week. There wasn't much clutch slipping necessary. Yesterday the terrain was a bit harder and I rode the bike 3 hours again, so in total the clutch is 6 hrs old. It was darn hot (about 94 F).

I called GG in Germany and asked them how to install the steel plates and they said it plays no role as long as they all face either outwards or inwards (with the sharp edge).

Shaft is good, checked both ends.

There is no leak visible, fluid level in the reservoir did not change, at least it isn't visible. But yes, it is possible that there is a leak letting air in.
I will bleed it again while waiting for the new slave.

Yesterday, when the bike always stalled when I put it in gear, I pumped the lever about 20 times and tried again, but that didn't change anything. (That worked on my KTM when air was in the system.)

@Gasser Nate:
I even bled it with the slave off the bike and the piston pushed back, that normally eliminates air that you wont get out during normal bleeding process. However, I too have the feeling the problem is related to the hydraulic part of the whole system (slave or master cylinder).

Will bleed again and report back but may take a few days.

Thank you both for your help, really appreciate that.

Doc
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:00 AM
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RudolfHucker RudolfHucker is offline
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The easiest way to check the steel plates for direction is to let them drop down the splines in an empty basket. They should drop straight down but will hang up if the splines have been cut in such a way as to be directional.

The 1st KTM I ever had had terrible clutch drag from new and this was the issue. They had been thrown in at the factory and most had been put in the wrong way round.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:34 AM
Neil E. Neil E. is offline
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So what is the preferred direction? Sharp edge inward or sharp edge outward?
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:46 AM
Greatdane Greatdane is offline
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I have heard the magura slave cylinder seals are prone to fail. Happens on new husky s too. From what I understand the replacement seal kit from a brembo (ktm) unit will work and is better quality.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:19 PM
Jacob 'Berg Jacob 'Berg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil E. View Post
So what is the preferred direction? Sharp edge inward or sharp edge outward?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I mount them with square edge towards the pressure plate (out). Chamfered edge in. Probably the most important, as others have stated, is having all of the steel plates facing the same direction.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:26 PM
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RudolfHucker RudolfHucker is offline
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Usually, the sharp edge is slightly bent down by the pressure of the cutting out process. Again, this can be confirmed by the method I described earlier
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:07 PM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob 'Berg View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I mount them with square edge towards the pressure plate (out). Chamfered edge in. Probably the most important, as others have stated, is having all of the steel plates facing the same direction.
My friend said we did it that way, I admit I can't remember.

Today we bled the system again the normal way. There was no air visible in the bleeder hose. We then reverse bled the system using a big syringe and a very tight fitting rubber hose.
I was surprised how much force was necessary to get the fluid pumped up to the reservoir. And yes I had the bleeder nipple opened far enough.

The feel on the lever did not change. The test ride showed that nothing has changed. With the engine cold it drags quite a bit but that is something that does not bother me too much. I then warmed the engine up going up and down the road. I also feathered the clutch a few times to get some heat in it.

With the engine warm I can put it in first or second gear, no drag. I also could start it in gear. Then I shut the engine off and gave it about 1 minute before I re-started it. Bingo! I put it in gear and the drag is so bad that it immediately dies. Starting it in gear is not possible, it drags so bad that it leaps forward with every revolution of the starter motor.

I can reproduce that as often as I want. As soon as I give the engine a rest and re-start it, the problem is there. If I leave it running all is good.

In desperation I took off the slave cylinder but didn't find anything unusual. But I now know where the o-ring the spare parts fiche shows sits and what it does. It's just there to avoid engine oil making its way through the cylinder. The oil I found on the piston is gear oil that comes from the push rod and a bearing.

Two things I noticed seem to be unusual. When I pull the clutch with engine off, I can hear a sucking noise from the clutch side. Hard to describe its a knocking noise as well. I remember that my KTM made a similar noise.

I changed my handle bars later on so took of the clutch master cylinder and let it hang down. When I mounted it to the new bar the clutch pull was considerably firmer than before. But before I could test ride it, it went back to how it was before. Furiously I bled the system again both ways (normal and reverse) but nothing changed.

I have a new slave cylinder on order but I fear it wont change anything


edit: gear oil is 10/50 Amsoil dirtbike oil. Oil level is slightly over the maximum but a small air bubble is visible on top of the sight glass...

Last edited by Doc Brown; 08-09-2019 at 05:20 AM. Reason: added information
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