Severe clutch problem EC 300 2019

[SS109]

I'm sorry to hear that Doc. I understand about getting away from it and on to something else. What sucks is it's probably something so simple yet everyone has missed it. Eh. Good luck however you go with things.

[Doc Brown]

Originally Posted by SS109

I'm sorry to hear that Doc. I understand about getting away from it and on to something else. What sucks is it's probably something so simple yet everyone has missed it. Eh. Good luck however you go with things.

Thank you my friend for your kind words. I had planned to ride it next week in Croatia but my wife got very ill so that I had to cancel my vacation and have to stay at home and wait while my wife is operated.

I have no clue what I will do as I cannot sell it in this condition.... but I will buy a new bike soon.

[dzhitshard]

Originally Posted by Doc Brown

Update and final conclusion.

In the meantime I have replaced the push rod as mine had a slight dimple in the end towards the slave. I was hoping that will finally cure the dragging. But it didn't. To the contrary the problem is back like it was back the first time after I replaced the whole clutch.

Again I replaced the slave cylinder but as expected it did not change anything. Now I have replaced all parts of the clutch except the line and the clutch lever. Clutch friction plates and slave cylinder have been replaced twice.

After some fighting with myself I have reached the point where I give up as I wont get any further and the whole matter starts to influence my life in a negative way. I sound like a girl, I know. The bike will be back at the dealer end of November latest and I will change over to Beta if I can afford it.

Thank you all for your help and patience with this very strange problem.
You have been of great help and assistance and I really appreciate that.

Funny you mention that.
My 18 XC300 was a similar pain. One thing after another: REPEATEDLY. I ended up going the same Beta route you propose. 2 months and 32 race hours later on the 19 300RR and I've changed 2 sets of tires, a set of brake pads, the airfilter 4 times and the oil 3 times. Zero problems with that thing. If you go that route I hope you have the same luck and relief I got.
I feel I'm faster on the GG but the clutch and motor just won't hold up so it's relegated to a huge waste of money as a backup now.

[Doc Brown]

Originally Posted by dzhitshard

Funny you mention that.
My 18 XC300 was a similar pain. One thing after another: REPEATEDLY. I ended up going the same Beta route you propose. 2 months and 32 race hours later on the 19 300RR and I've changed 2 sets of tires, a set of brake pads, the airfilter 4 times and the oil 3 times. Zero problems with that thing. If you go that route I hope you have the same luck and relief I got.
I feel I'm faster on the GG but the clutch and motor just won't hold up so it's relegated to a huge waste of money as a backup now.

I like the GG but it starts to really annoy me. And I have a very good offer for probably the last brand new 2019 300 race edition. But I will try a few things, then decide.
It sounds very good what you say about the Beta. The suspension is my only concern...

[SS109]

My buddy bought a Beta earlier this year, 300RR. He never was happy with the forks after multiple valving changes from local tuners and recently installed Ohlins TTX cartridges. He is now happy with the bike. He has had no other complaints with the bike. He said if they were plush enough in the rough stuff they were scary at high speed stuff. I rode it before the cartridge swap and thought they were great but that's me and I'm not quite as fast as he is. Overall I really liked the Beta.

I think it comes down to having a competent tuner that has experience with the Sachs forks to get it right. I don't think any of the local tuners here really know what they are doing with the Sachs other than applying KYB/Showa tuning ideas on them. I know that philosophy doesn't work on the Zokes so I won't send my Zokes but to maybe three tuners in the whole country as they actually have the knowledge base for valving them.

[swazi_matt]

Originally Posted by SS109

My buddy bought a Beta earlier this year, 300RR. He never was happy with the forks after multiple valving changes from local tuners and recently installed Ohlins TTX cartridges. He is now happy with the bike. He has had no other complaints with the bike. He said if they were plush enough in the rough stuff they were scary at high speed stuff. I rode it before the cartridge swap and thought they were great but that's me and I'm not quite as fast as he is. Overall I really liked the Beta.

I think it comes down to having a competent tuner that has experience with the Sachs forks to get it right. I don't think any of the local tuners here really know what they are doing with the Sachs other than applying KYB/Showa tuning ideas on them. I know that philosophy doesn't work on the Zokes so I won't send my Zokes but to maybe three tuners in the whole country as they actually have the knowledge base for valving them.

that was my issue with sachs, it was either or however you tuned them

[Doc Brown]

Originally Posted by SS109

My buddy bought a Beta earlier this year, 300RR. He never was happy with the forks after multiple valving changes from local tuners and recently installed Ohlins TTX cartridges. He is now happy with the bike. He has had no other complaints with the bike. He said if they were plush enough in the rough stuff they were scary at high speed stuff. I rode it before the cartridge swap and thought they were great but that's me and I'm not quite as fast as he is. Overall I really liked the Beta.

I think it comes down to having a competent tuner that has experience with the Sachs forks to get it right. I don't think any of the local tuners here really know what they are doing with the Sachs other than applying KYB/Showa tuning ideas on them. I know that philosophy doesn't work on the Zokes so I won't send my Zokes but to maybe three tuners in the whole country as they actually have the knowledge base for valving them.

Absolutely understand it that way. What you and your buddy say is 100% confirmed by the Beta dealer I know. I know him since a decade and buy all my tires and mousses from him. We often chat and he is also a really fast rider, used to ride in our local championships. And he is a Beta nerd since a very long time.
Straight forward guy. He said if you go the Beta way, plan to invest a lot of money and get Ohlins or Dal Saggio Sphere cartridges. Everything else may help a bit but it will never be a good working fork as long as you just change a shim here and there or try different oils.

He also said, that the forks might work for me bone stock as I am not such a fast rider, so I can imagine to try and then decide if it is necessary to change anything.

edit: he also said if investing in Ohlins or Dal Soggio he recommends to always put the forks into the next new bike...

[dzhitshard]

Originally Posted by Doc Brown

I like the GG but it starts to really annoy me. And I have a very good offer for probably the last brand new 2019 300 race edition. But I will try a few things, then decide.
It sounds very good what you say about the Beta. The suspension is my only concern...

The suspension is actually very little concern without throwing ridiculous $$ at things like DelSagio etc.

For the price of a fork revalve with any piston mods you can swap any number of Showa/KYB forks directly into the beta. Many have the exact same overall length and lug offset so there is ZERO geometry change and the Sachs spring dimensions interchange with the KYBs. IF you go Beta, try the forks and if you aren't happy after a break in and test period swap in KYB if you don't thing a simple revalve will get you where you want. 2 of my buddies who have left GG to Beta are happy/content with their forks. One on ZF open chambers and one on CC Race forks.

I wanted more out of them and didn't want to dump a bunch of $$ so I swapped mine to Honda KYB forks and axle with a set of custom spacers for a total of $575us. That included all shipping and a KYB OEM fork rebuild kit and 2liters of fork oil. I already had the KYB cap wrench and did the work myself.

Again, best of luck either way.

[Doc Brown]

Many thanks my friend! It is interesting what you say about the forks. The question is, do I need better ones. I am an average Joe and I am not fast, compared to fast guys I am very slow. But I know it and I know some guys who are also very slow, they just don't know it

I like the Beta's, always wanted one... but, believe it or not, the Gassy works fine again. Not sure if it will stay that way but for the moment it works, I don't know why, that bothers me a bit.

I installed another clutch master cylinder a guy lend me. before I installed it I cleaned the master cylinder and installed a repair kit. But, you already know it, it didn't change anything. In a flush of anger I put it in 5th gear held the throttle wide open and slipped the clutch. Did it 5 times and really tortured it. I was so angry I wished it would explode. Then started in first WOT and shifted without closing throttle, just using the clutch.
Still furious I did something I never would have thought, I drained the oil and filled the gearbox with ATF. Since decades I preach don't use ATF.

But since I filled the ATF (Castrol Dex II) it works. Not 100% but 90. I really could live with that. Now I don't know why it works.
Can it really be the oil? Its ATF its fucking made for automatic transmissions, how can this be. I mean I changed the darn whole clutch, basket hub, plate, slave, master. Every-fucking-thing. Then I fill ATF and all is good???

[Jacob 'Berg]

Originally Posted by Doc Brown

Many thanks my friend! It is interesting what you say about the forks. The question is, do I need better ones. I am an average Joe and I am not fast, compared to fast guys I am very slow. But I know it and I know some guys who are also very slow, they just don't know it

I like the Beta's, always wanted one... but, believe it or not, the Gassy works fine again. Not sure if it will stay that way but for the moment it works, I don't know why, that bothers me a bit.

I installed another clutch master cylinder a guy lend me. before I installed it I cleaned the master cylinder and installed a repair kit. But, you already know it, it didn't change anything. In a flush of anger I put it in 5th gear held the throttle wide open and slipped the clutch. Did it 5 times and really tortured it. I was so angry I wished it would explode. Then started in first WOT and shifted without closing throttle, just using the clutch.
Still furious I did something I never would have thought, I drained the oil and filled the gearbox with ATF. Since decades I preach don't use ATF.

But since I filled the ATF (Castrol Dex II) it works. Not 100% but 90. I really could live with that. Now I don't know why it works.
Can it really be the oil? Its ATF its fucking made for automatic transmissions, how can this be. I mean I changed the darn whole clutch, basket hub, plate, slave, master. Every-fucking-thing. Then I fill ATF and all is good???

ATF is roughly equivalent to 10W oil, so that could factor in. If this is the case I would expect that after the next oil change you will see less drag. After the friction plates wear a bit you will see even less drag as the whole pack gets thinner. If this becomes an intermittent problem I would start looking at the hydraulics again (ie. master, slave, lever, etc..), or the effect of temperature on the oil you are using. Good luck. I hope you stick with the Gasser...