2018 300ec starter issues

[Demi]

Got it, thanks Jeff!

[okay_GG]

has anyone ever experienced a worn down bendix fitment on the stator side? (opposite of the bendix cover, that is)
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...
Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?
ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer

[farmerj]

Comments below...

has anyone ever experienced a worn down bendix fitment on the stator side? (opposite of the bendix cover, that is)
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...

I have not heard of anyone finding the stator side bendix shaft housing to be worn. But I have had the same question as you! Play on the "other side" would be a problem, and not easy to fix. My take is this - if the bike starts fine, don't worry about it. If you have continuing problems, and it seems like the Bendix is binding and not engaging properly, take a closer look. If the housing is worn, the only good fix I can imagine is having a machine shop insert a sleeve in the housing.

Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?

It appears to me that the purpose of the washer is to add a wear surface so that the bendix does not contact the stator side case. I would add one back in, as you are planning to do. You definitely want #28 stator gasket installed - it keeps water and fine grit from getting into your stator windings and starter/bendix gears.

Regarding alignment - because the Bendix "throws out" to a fixed point on the Stator side, I don't think a missing #28 Stator cover gasket (or washer, because it is so thin) will affect alignment much. But without the gasket, the Bendix shaft may be "squeezed" end-to-end, and not turn as freely. For instance - some people have added two gaskets to the Bendix cover in order to allow the shaft to spin more freely - so removing the Stator Cover gasket would affect things in the opposite (negative) way.

ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer

Without a picture, it's hard to say - but these sprockets tend to get quite "beat up" from pictures I have seen, and still work OK - so some wear is not out of the ordinary. Here is a picture of mine. There is wear on the leading edge.

IMG_1336.jpg

Have success!

[okay_GG]

Hi,

Thanks for the swift and extensive reply. Tried to upload a (bad quality) pic

[okay_GG]

really geeting fed up with this issue.
still does not want to turn over. It seems some binding somewhere, so I disassemebled the complete stator cover, leaving just the starter gears in (the one where the startermotor lgoes into and the one with the pinion for driving the bendix.

that moves freely (but not everywhere as smooth, yet smooth enough as I just installed new bearings in both).

So I installed just the startermotor and let it spin. This is ok at first, but the revs go down pretty fast.
to exclude the starter gears being an issue,
I then only spun the startermotor seperately. This shows the same symptoms. Almost like a bad DC connection. As I already upgraded all wires last week to 10mm2, the only thing(s) that can cause this are
- the solenoid (starter-relay) or
- the startermotor itself. the latter, I replaced last week as well. off course this is a non OEM one that I had to turn around to CW rotation.
measured the voltage of the battery (also a brand new one, but only 150 CCA) and this shows dropping voltage to 8V in 10 sec??
Any Einstein here to help me?

[farmerj]

Sorry, not an Einstein! But here are a couple of thoughts.

Sounds like the problem is that your starter spins, but "the revs go down pretty fast" - even when the starter is removed from the stator cover. At least that should be an easily fixable problem! but maybe expensive

(1) It could be that your starter is failing. Maybe you got a bad one from the batch? Can you return/exchange it?

(2) Same for the battery, though it seems unlikely. But the drop in voltage seems excessive to me (although it sounds like you may have let it crank for a long time).

I would find another battery, and re-test. If the problem still exists, try another starter.

While cranking the starter for 10 sec. in a "free spin" mode may not be a problem, doing that very many times while installed in the bike can burn them up pretty quickly, as the windings get too hot. I'd suggest letting it crank 2-3 seconds and then allow the system to cool down a bit before trying again.

Other thoughts:
(3) It sounds like you did the wire upgrade. Ultimately, the 2018 bikes also need a 240cca battery per the GG tech bulletin. The 150cca batteries just don't pack enough punch. But I don't think that answers your current issue - when out of the bike, the starter should spin fine with that battery, I believe.

(4) If your battery went down to 8v, if it's a Lithium you may have a hard time charging it again. Some LI chargers won't "pick up" a battery when it gets below 9v, and if it does the cells can be out of balance and damage the battery. If you don't have an Optimate balancing Charger (or similar) I would take it to your dealer and ask them to charge it.

(5) If your battery is good, you might want to just go to a 24V system. Your current aftermarket starter might work fine with this (although if it has been compromised, it might not last long). This way, you spend $100 for a second (small case) Antigravity battery and that's it. Some good info. here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WluQKOZNY&feature=youtu.be

This thread is long, but a good read on all things starter-related:

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1350119-2019-ec-300-starter-issues/page/14/

It's too bad that some of the early bikes had these problems. Rieju has upgraded a number of parts in the starter system, and I suspect that starting problems are a thing of the past with the new bikes.

Let us know how it goes!

Jeff

[okay_GG]

Hey farmerj,

thank you, lots of checking to do. will check

[Gasser Nate]

8 volts is pretty low during a load test. Do not rule out a faulty battery. I just received a faulty lithium from a reputable manufacturer. It would open circuit intermittently. New one has well over the rated 240cca. For what it is worth I ran the stock 150cca for two years before it got too weak to start cold. Try not to mask faulty components with a big ass (or two) batteries.

Does no one have a decent mechanic to diagnose these faults or are they stuck with blindly replacing parts in the hope it fixes the problem?

[Demi]

To be fair, I think lots of techs blindly replace parts as well. This bike is weird with the fact that some have no issues and others have some or plenty.

[Gasser Nate]

No good mechanics do that. Generally only the ones at stealerships.
But yes is is strange, My 2018 has all original starter components save for me upgrading leads (before the factory thought it was a good idea) and the replacement battery.
Starts every time cold or hot.
Thing that shits me is it is a hour max to figure out what is wrong when it is in front of a decent mechanic.