Inconsistent idle/off throttle surging

[Tlineman]

Clutch dragging, what weight of oil are you running. My dealer tells me to run 0-40W Amsoil or the clutch will drag.

[Jakobi]

Maaate,

I had the same issue with the stock needle. Would idle nice when cold and stall out when up to temp. Idle Screw was almost wound right in. Could work around it by then backing out the Air Screw, but then would get the Symptoms you describe.

I still get this happening occassionally as the N3EG is still a bit fat on the lower end. I have just been a bit slack to change it for the N3CH.

Try lifting the needle one clip, and then resetting the air screw.

Like others here I have ended up with good results using the N3xx range of needles, a 38 main, and 175 pilot. I run my clip position a bit higher than most, but being in Australia we've been experiencing 80%+ humidity and tempts in the 30C, elevations to around 1000m.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Robby45

I don't know why, but I have to have the idle screw turned nearly all the way in to get the bike to idle (with a 35/38/or 40 pilot, doesn't matter -air screw position either). Is is possible that the slide is raised enough for fuel to dump into the intake on a closed throttle on hard decel?

Just a bit more. Typical condition (called pulling over)

- Needle diameter is too small. Bike is too rich 0-1/8th throttle.
- To compensate for the richness, you wind the idle in, which lifts the slide, allowing more air in.

This is why the pilot and air screw are making hardly any difference. You are effectively holding the throttle open and bypassing the idle circuit.

Resolution -> Leaner diameter on needle.
Stock Needle is N1EF. The F is the diameter.
From Rich to lean
N1EF
N1EG
N1EH
N1EJ

The N3 range has a different taper. The last letter still applies. The E and C are a half a clip different (c being leaner)

What needle do you have?

[Bailey28]

Jakobi,

IF you ever get the chance, try a neat combo I did the other day in my 300... I had a:

40 pilot
BGL clip 5
180 main
air screw out 2 turns.

whoa!

What a smoooooooth set up. The taper starts a bit sooner on the B needle however it is leaner past 1/2 throttle than the N1ex taper.

I like it, the bike won't load up and is really smooth getting on the pipe. It just barks in the sunny mode too. I will try clip 4 and re evaluate. My temps were upper 70's, very humid at sea level.

I'm still playing a bit, I was at CCK-3 which was good all around. I'm always tinkering..

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Bailey28

Jakobi,

IF you ever get the chance, try a neat combo I did the other day in my 300... I had a:

40 pilot
BGL clip 5
180 main
air screw out 2 turns.

whoa!

What a smoooooooth set up. The taper starts a bit sooner on the B needle however it is leaner past 1/2 throttle than the N1ex taper.

I like it, the bike won't load up and is really smooth getting on the pipe. It just barks in the sunny mode too. I will try clip 4 and re evaluate. My temps were upper 70's, very humid at sea level.

I'm still playing a bit, I was at CCK-3 which was good all around. I'm always tinkering..

Cheers Bailey.

Will give it a go if I ever get around to it. I still have a N3CH and an N3EJ here to try. I just haven't got around to it as the bike is running well enough as it is, and all my spare time seems to be getting sucked up with riding or other house hold chores

In all honesty I kind of like the N3 transfer onto the pipe. It reminds me that I'm riding the bike!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwXC1LZRIvw

[Klausen]

I got a also problem with the idle.
Yesterday I ride a little bit.
Carb specs:

#7
CCK needle #3
178
38
500ft
20?C
mixture screw 1,5 turns open

The bike has no idle and a stalling issue from 1/8 to 1/2
I think the CCK needle is to lean and the 38 idle jet to rich.

today I changed

DDK needle #2
175 main
35 idle

The idle screw is 2 turns open from full in.
Is this OK?
I got only a idle when I open the mixture screw 3,5 turns or more.
But after 1 minute the engine die off.
This means normally a to rich idle jet .
But I don't have a 32 jet at the moment.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Klausen

I got a also problem with the idle.
Yesterday I ride a little bit.
Carb specs:

#7
CCK needle #3
178
38
500ft
20?C
mixture screw 1,5 turns open

The bike has no idle and a stalling issue from 1/8 to 1/2
I think the CCK needle is to lean and the 38 idle jet to rich.

today I changed

DDK needle #2
175 main
35 idle

The idle screw is 2 turns open from full in.
Is this OK?
I got only a idle when I open the mixture screw 3,5 turns or more.
But after 1 minute the engine die off.
This means normally a to rich idle jet .
But I don't have a 32 jet at the moment.

36mm or 38mm PWK?

2 turns open is fine.. Where is your idle screw set? If its all the way in, its a good indication that your needles diameter is too rich.

If the idle is wound right in, you're fuelling your bike by lifting the carb, which is what happens when you open the throttle. Lift it enough and you transition from the pilot onto too much combo of needle and pilot. Thus you end up chasing a smaller pilot jet as a bandaid.

Does this make any sense?

[Klausen]

38mm PWK

the idle adjuster screw is 2 turn open from full close

the air adjust srew is 3 turns open

I use the DDK needle diameter is 2,695mm.
Do anyone know the diameter of N1EF, N1EG, N1EH.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Klausen

38mm PWK

the idle adjuster screw is 2 turn open from full close

the air adjust srew is 3 turns open

I use the DDK needle diameter is 2,695mm.
Do anyone know the diameter of N1EF, N1EG, N1EH.

Stolen from elswhere

SIZE: P/NO Dia.
NOZF 13383-37EB0 2.705mm
N1EF 13383-37E60 2.705mm
N0ZE 13383-37EA0 2.695mm
N1EE 13383-37E50 2.695mm
NOZD 13383-37E90 2.685mm
N1ED STOCK NEEDLE 13383-37E40 2.685mm
N0ZC 13383-37E80 2.675mm
N1EC 13383-37E30 2.675mm
N0ZB 13383-37E70 2.665mm
N1EB 13383-37E20 2.665mm

seems to indicate f=2.705mm E=2.695mm D=2.685mm and so on...

..so
G= 2.715
H= 2.725
J= 2.735

[Robby45]

Well, I finally got it dialed in for the most part. The bike now runs and idles fine, but is still real lean at 0-1/4 throttle. But that is only jetting combination I have found that allows it run well across the range.

I fiddled with everything, so I can't tell you what finally made the difference. Two things that I think are the most likely:

1. When I first got the bike, the airbox was not fully seated on the carb. It was hard to see, because it was on the right side of the bike. Because my problem got worse over time, I think it may have allowed enough dust and debris into the carb that clogged the air screw. While cleaning the carb (twice) I noticed residue in the pilot screw hole.

2. Even after checking my choke cable free play and things looking okay, I noticed the cable can bind at either the handlebar or the carb. I adjusted the routing to keep slack on both ends.

After the main problem was solved I tried all kinds of needle/main/pilot combinations to dial it in and settled on what JD recommends: 180 main/38 pilot/red needle in 4th clip position. My final issue is that lean 0-1/4 throttle. This bike is extremely sensitive to needle taper and clip position. One clip change on the red needle changes a ton, so I think I will keep it on the 4th clip and add a shim under the clip.