2018 Batteries and Starter Doesnt work!

[markwoodlief]

I find it absolutely ludicrous that LOTS of people have pm'd me the same issue, over and over again, likely about 10 people at this point. These people are afraid to say something or they'll get banned. Yet GG and my local dealer swear they have never seen this issue before.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by markwoodlief

I find it absolutely ludicrous that LOTS of people have pm'd me the same issue, over and over again, likely about 10 people at this point. These people are afraid to say something or they'll get banned. Yet GG and my local dealer swear they have never seen this issue before.

As a moderator I find that absolutely ludicrous as well. In 7 years here I can probably count the number of people banned on one hand, and my personal count is naught.

The general rules are play the ball, not the person, and all will be well. No one would get banned for identifying or confirming issues, but if you start slandering businesses or people that changes the playing field a bit.

I'd encourage anyone else with these issues to also share their experiences. This is a new chassis for 2018, and while testing has occurred it's still very possible that there could be some unforeseen issues. It happens with all new products and all brands.

In a perfect world QA would iron out all of the issues prior, but it's also an inherent risk you take buying first year upgrades. You'll be a player in the refinement of the product. This isn't for everyone and is downright frustrating if you're not mechanically minded or if the solution is a bit trickier.. but given time things will be made right.

So really, things you should be looking at or that would add worth to this thread is what is actually happening when you press that button. A multi meter and a methodical approach of where the juice is flowing, and where the problem is. Is the stator charging the system when it's running? Are all the grounds earthed? Do they still earth to the back of the top triple? I know my 2013 never grounded well here and I found taking it back to the frame on some bare metal allowed things to work much better.

It could be electrical, or could me mechanical in that the bendix isn't throwing out or catching up. It could be too much compression. No one has put a comp gauge across one yet, I haven't seen measurements for trapped volume, or the squish clearance. I know they are claiming significant increases in power and torque with a new head and cylinder.

As I said earlier, I'd be politely suggesting that the dealer work with a reputable auto electrician. Get that part checked off, and then move on to mechanical issues. Or even something as simple as pulling the plug cap and plug and pressing the button and seeing if the engine spins over without compression.

[markwoodlief]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

As a moderator I find that absolutely ludicrous as well. In 7 years here I can probably count the number of people banned on one hand, and my personal count is naught.

I should have been more clear. They and I were excommunicated from the fb group, NOT THIS SITE. Sorry get to typing and mistakenly assume people can read my mind as well, ..

Unfortunately, the FB group was pretty volatile, lots of shit talkers, and not about the bikes, they have a bad habit of attacking people over there. Haven't seen that here. My apologies should have been more clear.

[markwoodlief]

So rode it today at our club property a bit. Sure enough the magic power dance works most of the time. Right off the trailer it didn't start no matter what kind of waiting around I did. After we stopped at our first break ,(was with my 7yo so didn't get much RPM's going), I had to do the wait 30 second thing a few times then it did start with the estart. A few times through the day it would fire right up like you would expect, no waiting, no nothing. A few times I had to do the wait around trick. My 7yo sitting on his bike idling away has the patience of a gnat, so got lots of dirty looks as we were waiting for my battery to get to a happy place. All in all it's better but not right, and I do think this is a fundamental issue here.

The bigger issue is coming in a month or two. I know these Li batteries don't like the cold and we ride all year around here. Sometimes in the snow and ice. So when it's on my trailer behind my truck for 15 miles in already freezing temps I don't expect these batteries will even consider waking up to go play for the day . It still kicks starts easily every time, but for someone that is damn near 50, rides nasty mountain single track, has a very weak right leg from previous moto accidents, that estart is almost mandatory.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by markwoodlief

I should have been more clear. They and I were excommunicated from the fb group, NOT THIS SITE. Sorry get to typing and mistakenly assume people can read my mind as well, ..

Unfortunately, the FB group was pretty volatile, lots of shit talkers, and not about the bikes, they have a bad habit of attacking people over there. Haven't seen that here. My apologies should have been more clear.

It'd be wise to take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt, but facebook even more so than other more reliable sources.

My point being that you should try and keep your emotions aside. You haven't been left in the dark with an unresolvable issue. Continue working with your dealer and I'm sure given a little time this will be ironed out.

Getting online and stating that multiple people have contacted you with the same issue, but not providing any additional details regarding the actual specifics of what each individuals has experienced and what fault finding has been taking place in each case does very little to benefit your own case.

And that is my own individual opinion, from an unbiased customer, un-associated with the brand other than owning a few bikes, in a country distant from yours.

[arminhammer]

My wife's 250 has the same problem. It will crank but no start. Wanted to ride it today before looking into it so just used the kicker.
The best way I can describe the problem would be when you use the E-start the the coil is not being triggered so no spark. I will try to get to it tomorrow and let you know what I find.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by markwoodlief

...

... The bigger issue is coming in a month or two. I know these Li batteries don't like the cold and we ride all year around here. Sometimes in the snow and ice. So when it's on my trailer behind my truck for 15 miles in already freezing temps I don't expect these batteries will even consider waking up to go play for the day . ....

I was curious as I haven't had time to ride and wondering what to expect from my shorai Li-Fe battery as things get colder here as well....

I found this on the shorai website relative to Li-Fe battery cold weather performance/expectations & best practices.

" Down to about 20 degrees Fahrenheit (-7C) most users find that they can start normally on first crank. If your headlight comes on at key-ON, it is good for the batteries to flow some current before cranking in cold weather. The suggested headlight-on time before cranking depends on the temperature. If starting at 40F/5C, 30 seconds will help wake the battery and increase cranking performance. If at 0F/-17C, leave the lights on for 4~5 minutes before cranking. The result will be a better first crank, and longer battery life. If the engine fails to start on first crank, that first crank has warmed the battery, and the second attempt will be much stronger. Other accessories that can be turned on before cranking can also be used for this purpose, such as heated gear, radio, etc... Insuring that the battery is fully charged after storage also improves first-start performance in cold weather."


the complete FAQ is here :

https://shoraipower.com/faq


jeff

[Cox76y]

I purchased a 2018 300 6 days and am having issues which I think are caused by a battery that isn't holding charge. I only had the bike 1 day and the battery went flat overnight. I charged it up and connected it to a battery meter and watched it discharge from 14.4v and kept falling right down to around 10volts. Local dealer is great and has already ordered another battery. I'm just waiting for it to arrive.
I'm hoping my issue will be solved with a fresh battery but I'm confident my local dealer will find the fault regardless.
Josh

[markwoodlief]

Originally Posted by Cox76y

I purchased a 2018 300 6 days and am having issues which I think are caused by a battery that isn't holding charge. I only had the bike 1 day and the battery went flat overnight. I charged it up and connected it to a battery meter and watched it discharge from 14.4v and kept falling right down to around 10volts. Local dealer is great and has already ordered another battery. I'm just waiting for it to arrive.
I'm hoping my issue will be solved with a fresh battery but I'm confident my local dealer will find the fault regardless.
Josh

More and more are coming out of the wood work. Thanks for posting.. The more GG realizes there is an issue the more we can expect it to get fixed.

Never seen a six days, whats the difference?

[Neil E.]

Originally Posted by arminhammer

The best way I can describe the problem would be when you use the E-start the the coil is not being triggered so no spark. I will try to get to it tomorrow and let you know what I find.

My experience tells me that the voltage drop from cranking the engine over is having an effect on the electrics. It might be a situation where the DC powered CDI stops triggering at a certain voltage. Let's say it's threshold is 10VDC. A 13V battery may be dipping this low and causing trouble. The only way to be sure is too hook up a voltmeter and see what happens to the battery voltage.

Jumping from a large battery is an easy way to troubleshoot. It will have more than enough capacity. I put an eight cell Ballistic brand Lithium Ion battery in my bike just to have a bit more cranking power. Once the temperature goes below about 40*F, the Bendix engagement can be iffy, so I use the kickstarter on my first start. Even when troublesome, my estart will almost always catch by the third try.

Automotive systems weren't always trouble free. The battery cables on some GMs would heat soak and fail to pass current. Once everything cooled down, it worked again. Chrysler products used to have a ballast resistor in the ignition circuit to modify the ignition voltage.