Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum  

Go Back   Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum > GasGas Enduro Technical Forums > Enduro Suspension

Enduro Suspension Tuning & maintenance of Enduro forks, shocks, etc


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:52 PM
Jakobi's Avatar
Jakobi Jakobi is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,994
Default

A 22 crossover might be a bit small but OK to try. You could probably steal the 28 or 26 out of the main stack without it causing too much influence overall as well.

With the bleed stack just invert everything below the spacer.

IE
16x0.1
14x0.3
14x0.3 CLAMP
20x1.6 SPACER
Inverted stack
22x0.1x4
20x0.1
18x0.1
16x0.1
14x0.1
11x0.3
11x0.3
bleed ports around post.

This will take the whole bleed stack out of the equation. The 2 11x0.3mm shims won't restrict the bleed at all. The rest of the inverted stack just maintains some height for the stack on the post.


Reply With Quote


  #52  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:48 AM
Thompo Thompo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 101
Default

Just thought I would update this.

Tried a few things and think I have settled on something that I like for now.

Tried the stack as before with the bleed stack flipped.
I had some 0.48 Springs from my KTM which fit but are a little longer equating to 13mm preload.

I found the forks non-compliant at my speeds 2-3rd gear mostly with 0.48 springs, didn't deflect as much as the Marzocchis but not plush or comfortable.

Pulled them down, checked everything.
Seems one of my bushings on the rebound piston is worn and possibly worn the coating on the damper tube oil was a little grey after a few hrs.
Rebuilt with standard 0.44 springs and fresh Putoline 5wt (22cst).


Took it to a track with MX and enduro loops and bike was almost unrideable. tried clickers and more rebound seemed to help, but not good. Was harsh, wouldn't hold a line but jumped great.....
Back to the bench and found a rebound adjuster rod hiding under a rag lol

Since I was in them again I decided to really soften things and see if I liked them.

Base valves now
4x 32x0.1
22
3x 32
30,28,26,24,22,20,18,16x01,
14x0.3
flipped bleed.

Float 0.4mm in 1 leg 0.3mm in the other (didn't have shims to try 0.35)

Redone everything with ISO15 hydraulic fluid, 15cst to free up the damping a little and its $10 for 5l vs $25 for 2l of fork oil! (also bled my clutch with it and it feels lighter)

Settled with a 0.44 and a 0.48 spring in each leg as didn't have time to revalve before race.

Rode my 1st endurocross and forks preformed really well. No deflection and comfortable.

Is there any way to move the spring perches so preload can be played with?
Was hoping to remove the stop and cut a new groove a bit higher up but cant figure out how to remove the stop without destroying it!

I think id be very happy with my current damping and 0.48 springs with minimal preload.

Yet to try the MX track with this but I can live with some bottoming as id usually be riding enduro and not jumping too big.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:36 PM
Zman's Avatar
Zman Zman is offline
Platinum Level Site Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,818
Default

13mm of preload is a lot! I think you are supposed to have about 5mm.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-24-2018, 01:46 AM
Jakobi's Avatar
Jakobi Jakobi is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,994
Default

Yep yep yep!

The preload on the main spring will be adding undesirable traits both in compression and top out.

You may find once the preload is backed off that you'll end up adding some more damping back in.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:39 AM
Zman's Avatar
Zman Zman is offline
Platinum Level Site Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,818
Default

I went through this high preload problem with my YZ SSS forks when the RaceTech springs were too long. I was told by several people in the suspension industry that I should not cut the stock spring perches more than 5mm (to reduce the preload) because that can apply lateral force on the inner chamber fork tube which can dent or bend the tube causing restriction.

While I purchased the race perches to lower the preload more than 5mm, it would have been easier to buy the correct KYB springs that come with the correct length for 5mm of preload.

You can get parts from https://www.suspensiondirect.com/shop/ or http://www.technical-touch.com/
Based upon my spring length problem with RaceTech I will be avoiding them in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-24-2018, 09:09 AM
Thompo Thompo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 101
Default

I had the old WP springs out of my 950Adv (it got 0.62s) I was hoping to use these to curtail costs (I can get machine work done FOC) but doesn't look straight forward.

I don't want to shave the spring perches as ive read about them damaging the cartridge bodies.

Where did you get the race perches?
Id prefer to move the perch and add spacers vs buy springs as it gives much more scope for trying used springs off ebay etc.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:57 PM
Zman's Avatar
Zman Zman is offline
Platinum Level Site Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,818
Default

I bought mine from https://www.suspensiondirect.com/shop/
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:54 PM
Zman's Avatar
Zman Zman is offline
Platinum Level Site Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,818
Default

I lost some weight and my suspension felt a bit stiff again. I backed out the compression adjusters all the way and it was still a bit stiff. I cut the perches a little more and dropped 2mm from my preload (4mm-ish) and it really softened up the initial feel of the forks. I think I should have done this sooner. I will get a better feel for it this weekend at Loretta Lynns ranch.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-10-2018, 09:14 AM
Zman's Avatar
Zman Zman is offline
Platinum Level Site Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,818
Default

I rode the first day with about 6 clicks of compression dampening. It was too stiff for the terrain. The forks worked fine for larger bumps but the small trail trash just wore me out over time. I started thinking I am probably getting too old and.... LOL Nope - I just need to get the tune right!

Day 2 I softened the forks by opening the compression clickers all the way with no clicks. I also softened the rear two clicks. That combination worked pretty well but I dont like having the adjuster topped out with no adjustment so I want to have some ability to soften it even more.

These forks came from a YZ450F 2008 or 2009 and I have never changed the ICS pressure springs. I have heard the stock 450 ICS springs could be a little heavy for enduro/trail riding. I order some 1.8 ICS springs from RaceTech.

The install is pretty easy, but I noticed the stock springs are 10mm shorter than the new ones. I read on TT that you don't need to use the plastic spacers with the aftermarket springs, so I tried the install without the spacer. I quickly found out that I could not bleed the inner chamber properly with out the spacer and the rod would not fully extend.


Having 7mm preload or a 5mm gap in the ICS spring did not seem like a good idea so I decided to machine the stock plastic spacer shorter to a total of 9.4mm. This gave me about a 0.5mm gap once it was assembled. The inner chamber bled all the air and the piston extended fully, like normal. It appears that having a bigger ICS spring gap without the spacer is a problem.

When I finished the first fork I compared it side by side (compression by hand) with the fork with the stock ICS spring and the lighter spring feels initially more compliant. Both forks on the bike I could tell it had a softer feel and I needed to add 6 clicks of compression.

We just had our first snow but I will try to sneak out and see how it feels.


Has anyone else changed ICS springs and how did you address the spacer?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:16 PM
memphis2857 memphis2857 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 970
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman View Post
I rode the first day with about 6 clicks of compression dampening. It was too stiff for the terrain. The forks worked fine for larger bumps but the small trail trash just wore me out over time. I started thinking I am probably getting too old and.... LOL Nope - I just need to get the tune right!



Day 2 I softened the forks by opening the compression clickers all the way with no clicks. I also softened the rear two clicks. That combination worked pretty well but I dont like having the adjuster topped out with no adjustment so I want to have some ability to soften it even more.



These forks came from a YZ450F 2008 or 2009 and I have never changed the ICS pressure springs. I have heard the stock 450 ICS springs could be a little heavy for enduro/trail riding. I order some 1.8 ICS springs from RaceTech.



The install is pretty easy, but I noticed the stock springs are 10mm shorter than the new ones. I read on TT that you don't need to use the plastic spacers with the aftermarket springs, so I tried the install without the spacer. I quickly found out that I could not bleed the inner chamber properly with out the spacer and the rod would not fully extend.





Having 7mm preload or a 5mm gap in the ICS spring did not seem like a good idea so I decided to machine the stock plastic spacer shorter to a total of 9.4mm. This gave me about a 0.5mm gap once it was assembled. The inner chamber bled all the air and the piston extended fully, like normal. It appears that having a bigger ICS spring gap without the spacer is a problem.



When I finished the first fork I compared it side by side (compression by hand) with the fork with the stock ICS spring and the lighter spring feels initially more compliant. Both forks on the bike I could tell it had a softer feel and I needed to add 6 clicks of compression.



We just had our first snow but I will try to sneak out and see how it feels.





Has anyone else changed ICS springs and how did you address the spacer?


I have a 2018 with the AOS forks and changed the ICS springs. Stock in them are 2.1 and on advice from a couple different timers I went all the way down to a 1.0. I too freaked a little about the pre-load but a quick call to race tech eased my mind. They said that a little pre-load is actually a good thing and stated it wouldn’t hurt a thing. The springs made a huge difference but a little valving work is still needed. I think the stack needs softened and probably go back up a few rates on the ICS springs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
05 shiver valving jasont1532 Enduro Suspension 6 11-11-2012 10:40 AM
Sachs fork valving '10 300 Bailey28 Enduro Suspension 16 10-18-2011 08:43 PM
sachs fork valving dh racing Enduro Suspension 6 03-24-2011 01:03 AM
08 EC300 Fork valving AdrenalineJunky Enduro Suspension 9 08-13-2010 03:58 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009 - GasGasRider.org