2011 KTM 300XCW vs '05 GG 250 and '08 GG 300

[AZRickD]

I had a chance to spend some time with a friend's 2011 KTM 300 XCW. This year, KTM has finally added a sixth gear to bikes along its model line.

The 2011 KTM is an improvement over past model years (I've recently ridden a few 09 and 10 models, both 250 and 300). The 2011 motor is less buzzy and seems to pull into upper revs a bit more lively. However, I have seen this same variance in nearly identical bikes. Four years ago I rode nearly identical 2006 KTM 300 XC and XCW. One was buzzy, the other was fairly smooth. Both were jetted very well.

I helped jet this particular bike so even though the owner doesn't like tweaking jetting like I do, it was close enough. Given that so many bikes are jetted haphazardly I can't say that my motor comparisons in this instance are necessarily a gold standard.

While the motors on the KTM 250 and GG 250 can be compared as being designed for similar roles, the KTM 300 and the GG 300 are not at all alike. The KTM 300 is a chugger down low, as one would suspect. The Orange power builds smoothly enough (middle PV spring) and continues to a rush of speed. Very satisfying. The Gas Gas 300 is of a different nature. On the GG 300s I have ridden, the bottom seems a bit softer in comparison. Again, I can't vouch for the jetting of another's bike here in Phoenix at 100F and 1500 feet or in Flagstaff last weekend at 8000 feet and 85F. This particular '08 GG 300 was definitely jetted a little fat even for Tucson at 1500. It burbled off-idle to mid throttle up in Flagstaff. Of course, my non-jetting-Nazi KTM friend didn't re-jet his 2010 300 for Flagstaff either, but it still rode okay and at least I got a chance to ride it in Phoenix where l could attest to the jetting there.

Given all that, as I revved the GG300 up through the range, I found nearly (but not quite) the same satisfying bottom torque (despite the fat pilot jet and who knows what air screw setting) and the same rush to mid and upper revs. But it was at that point that the Gasser 300 motor showed what made it different. It had that rush and then kept going. I actually had to back off a bit (I'm known for my slow). This wasn't a KTM300 motor. It was more like a 250 with 20% (50cc) more attitude. Naturally, ignition types and fly wheel weight difference between brands and even between makes (EC vs DE) can change everything. So, your mileage may vary.

The handling of the 2011 KTM was improved. Despite that the 2011 KTM rider is 6+ and I'm 5'9", and he had the bars full forward, I instantly felt very comfortable on the bike. Yes, I would have moved the bars back all the way. Yes, the seat was a bit too high for me. Those quibbles aside, the new KTM had light steering and rolled into turns very quickly. Yes, quicker than my '05 DE250 (caveat to come). As I compare this to my 2005, I have to note that I have a Scotts steering damper which slows down the bar rate. As well, I have the steering head nut on fairly tight. Additionally, I have a 3.2 gallon Clark tank that puts a lot of weight up high when compared to the stock KTM tank. Still, the KTM inputed well. Even with those seeming advantages, the KTM didn't actually turn faster than my 2005 GG -- maybe a bit slower than my old Gasser. And I would wager that it turned slower than my friend's 2008 GG 300. On the plus side, this is the first KTM that I would even consider going without a damper. I didn't get any bad signs of instability from the KTM. It wasn't quite as good as my '05, but a good performance improvement nonetheless. I could take or leave the Scotts damper on my GG.

The front forks of the 2011 KTM worked pretty well. I would say nearly on par with my LTR-revavled and resprung Zokes forks. I didn't have a complaint with the KTM. A friend bought a 2010 KTM250XC several months ago and said the suspension was brutal as he attempted to break them in. He took them to a local suspension guy (Bob Tod of Future Shoxs), and I can attest that they are some of the best forks I've ever pounded rocks and whoops on. Very supple and (according to the owner), no bottoming on cased jumps on the MX track (he's not much of a jumper).

Now, onto the shock and still-linkless suspension. I was not impressed. As I rammed through whoops small and large, it felt like the swing arm was a foot shorter than on the GG. The impact of the rear end was... eh, "not subtle." It is a glaring divergence from what would be a heck of a bike. Until they fix that...

[john01]

Hey nice reports I enjoyed reading them. I love my 2010 EC300 but I've never rode a KTM 2-stroke. My son had two KTM's both 08's. One was a SX450 the other was a SX505. I couldn't get along with either bike nor could he. I wouldn't get a KTM 2-stroke until I had a good chance to ride . The GasGas I have was a shot in the dark having never even seen one. I think I made the right choice and you helped confirm it, thanks.

[EtienneNZ]

Thanks for the great report. I like the 300 KTM, but I love my GG! My one riding buddy has had 3 new 300 KTM's in the last few years and I must say that he had quite a few issues with them but nothing major - mostly electrical issues with E-starter and cut-out switch. They are very strong and smooth at bottom revs - GG blows it away on open country drag race

[Clay]

One of my biggest concerns on riding a Gas Gas was the tranny. I had gotten used to the KTM XC tranny and liked it very much. I shouldn't have worried, though, because the 6 speed makes a big difference. I predict that KTM will eventually drop the XC or the W models. They had to build 2 models to do what GG did with one because KTM insisted on sticking w/ the 5 speed until 2011.
I hear that the 2011 KTM is improved in the handling area but there is no way it turns like a GG! Holy cow do these things turn!
Of course....I may be prejudiced!
Clay

[AZRickD]

The 2011 KTM doesn't turn as well as a 2008 GG (which I feel turns quicker than my '05). I haven't ridden any GGs newer than that. What are the opinions of the handling of the newer GGs vs those of a couple-three years ago?

[jeffs2200]

The 2011 KTM you rode was not the new frame and chasis bike. The 2011 300xc is completely different. The 2011 xcw is just the same as the 2010 with the exception of the 6 speed.

The 2011 XC is supposed to be another big leap in handling compared to the 08-10 models.

The suspension had gotten pretty good stock on the 09 and 10 models but the 11's are suupose to be quite a bit better - again the xcw you rode is really just a 10 model (same suspension as the 2010)

I have an 08 and an 09 and I know for a fact the pds system can be made to work quite well and does not beat you up in any way. I do think the KTM's are a little more sensitive to correct setup, sag etc. and if not right it makes a huge difference.

I really want to get a ride on a new GasGas to compare the differences. I for one feel that it is only really fair to compare similar or same model years for an acccurate picture.

I spent last weekend riding with a guy who just bought a 2011 KTM 300 xcw and he has raced an 06 GasGas for three years before that. He feels the KTM is better in every way. I say of course it is you are comparing an 06 to a 2011.

[AZRickD]

Yes, not only is he comparing a GG designed five years ago with a new KTM, he's comparing a relatively clapped out bike to one fresh off the showroom.

A few weeks ago I let a guy ride my '05. When he came back he said, "I didn't like it. It's all rattly." I pointed to my beat up FMF pipe that was touching the frame. It didn't register with him.

[jeffs2200]

Yes, that is part of what I am trying to say. I think to do any good comparison you need to have bikes of similar age and setup.

I am sure the new GG are great but I also know that the KTM's are as well. You just don't sell that many bikes off of hype alone.

I am glad to hear the 2011's are in the country because I really want to try one.

I wonder how much of the difference in power characteristics between the GasGas and the KTM are due to the different size carbs.

[AZRickD]

I think to do any good comparison you need to have bikes of similar age and setup.

I suppose that would be the case if you were only considering new bikes.

In my case, I rode all of the then new 2007/2008 KTMs. The used 2005 Gasser that I eventually bought was easily the better choice.

[redrider7202]

Originally Posted by AZRickD

Yes, not only is he comparing a GG designed five years ago with a new KTM, he's comparing a relatively clapped out bike to one fresh off the showroom.

A few weeks ago I let a guy ride my '05. When he came back he said, "I didn't like it. It's all rattly." I pointed to my beat up FMF pipe that was touching the frame. It didn't register with him.

yea, it tough ridding different bikes and comparing them. In the past year i've been on a 250, 300 and 450 ktm, 220 kdx, XR250, ttr225 (for about 10 feet, was helping a kid out) and you really need to sit there and try to isolate different things and know ur comparing a specific year to a specific year.

And btw, the more i ride other bikes the more i like the gasser, and i still don't have the jetting or suspension quite right.