Long/Stroker rod for 01 XC?

[jgas]

My 01 needs a rebuild, am wondering if there is a long rod kit for my bike? It uses a Honda rod from what I hear? I generally like the overall power but would like a little more smooth bottom end torque. I already use a 12oz flywheel weight. I like the mid-top pull stock but would trade off a bit of top end for the additional bottom. I have been a 4t rider for 20 years and ride in some extreme technical terrain with elevation changes and rocks/roots/downed trees, and it's often wet. I need more of a survival bike than anything. I want to keep the 01 model I have since I got lucky and found it with very low hrs in excellent shape. The bike looked perhaps 1 yr old when I bought it in 2011, so I really can't justify a new bike.

I have owned an 01 300 GG and found that the power down low was a bit unmanageable in the tricky stuff, especially when wet. I could manage it but got tired much faster than on my 250. For comparison sake, what I am trying to get is low end power similar to a KTM 200 which to me has the best off idle/extreme low end delivery of any 2 stroke, including their 250 and 300. The KTM 200 low end is snappy but also extremely manageable when I'm tired, riding on nasty wet technical terrain, or whatever else I might encounter. I have also ridden a YZ 250 with a long rod kit, which had the low end that I want, and felt roughly the same to me as a stock YZ on mid and top. I also know that due to different porting/cylinders/pipes/CDIs etc, every bike responds differently to the same mods. I do intend to get the squish set and have someone who knows GGs do the work.

I am almost 50 yrs old, I weigh about 220, and my bike is loaded down with a tube and carrier on the front fender, tool pack on the rear, another tool pack on my waist, and all the usual bike guards. I also use heavy duty tires and the thickest tubes possible. Did I mention that I ride in rocks? I mean extreme often sharp rocks. I think with me and my extra stuff and bike the weight is probably about 470-500lbs and that is without whatever mud gets stuck on the bike. Someone is going to tell me to lose weight. I am not fat, (ok, not fat for an old guy). I lifted weights for 30 years. I also have to carry all the stuff mentioned due to the remote places I ride. When I race I do long course enduros, but some of my trail rides are harder and longer, and I usually ride with younger and faster guys so I need all the help I can get.

I know I could just put up with the stock power delivery but I am willing to fine tune and spend a little more money to get it right, if I get the advice here that it is possible and worth it. I have never really taken the time to set up a bike perfectly before, I just rode them stock most of the time unless I bought one with mods. I am hoping that with a proper setup I can help myself bypass some of the problems I am having. I've had 29 surgeries, and I'm starting to feel my age! I can go pretty fast for about 30-40 miles, then I really start slowing down. I work out and do alot of cardio, but I also have a slight heart condition, have lost about 15% of my lung capacity, etc/etc/etc/. Yes, I'm whining a bit, but I'm trying to use brain over brawn for a change. Not something I'm used to doing, so go ahead and make fun of me, but give me some good advice.

[(F5)]

first off, 29 surgeries?!! Not sure I want to hear that story.

But to start with lets talk Jetting, because that may be your issue. Also on an old bike it is worth looking at the needle jet in the carb & checking for ovality with a torch & a good eye. Totally round is the only acceptable shape.

Long rod doesn't change the timing duration much but does alter the primary compression. I don't think these are the Droids you are looking for.

[GMP]

jgas,

Many of us are older, banged up, or both. We also ride on some pretty crappy trails, I know I do. Hell, my trails will make you feel older than you are! Either bike can work, but if its got to be smooth why not start with a 300? I think it would be easier to tone down the low end bark and and keep a smooth stretch of power than boosting the 250 a lot, as well as more straightfoward and cheaper. I would start with a 300, raise the cylinder and have the head cut to match. Don't go crazy on compression, maybe even drop a few PSI, this will make kicking easy. Get one of the Euro pipes that are mid/top focused. If thats not enough you can retard the static timing. That sounds like a plan doesn't it?

[bowhunter007]

Originally Posted by GMP

jgas,

Many of us are older, banged up, or both. We also ride on some pretty crappy trails, I know I do. Hell, my trails will make you feel older than you are! Either bike can work, but if its got to be smooth why not start with a 300? I think it would be easier to tone down the low end bark and and keep a smooth stretch of power than boosting the 250 a lot, as well as more straightfoward and cheaper. I would start with a 300, raise the cylinder and have the head cut to match. Don't go crazy on compression, maybe even drop a few PSI, this will make kicking easy. Get one of the Euro pipes that are mid/top focused. If thats not enough you can retard the static timing. That sounds like a plan doesn't it?

+1 on the 300. I loved mine(gave it to the son-in-law). Here in the Puget Sound region of the PNW...Woods, tight & twisty, rocks, roots, logs, mud, and all kinds of crap to ride on... depending on which ride area. My 300 is far more forgiving when I'm tired than either of my 250s. I like to shift gears & fiddle with the clutch etc. Which is why I returned to a 250. My 300 has gobs on bottom. If it started getting away from me...I either let off, or rode a gear higher, or let it throw me on the ground

[GMP]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a 250 guy, but a little hit is fine with me. I just thought jgas should approach his problem from the other direction.

[bowhunter007]

A slight gearing change could shift your 250's power the direction your looking for, as well. Gearing is a time honored tradition for underpowered vehicles, or changing where the power is delivered. One or two teeth on the rear would make a difference on how much power you put to the tire in the bottom.

[jgas]

Cool. I get more, faster, and better replies here than anywhere.

I have already geared my bike down so low that first is almost never used. I use 2nd where most would use first, and also use 3rd alot with some clutch work. I really had to lower 1st for some of the crawling/trials type work I do. I ride one trail that is 2 miles long, almost everyone is in 1st for 90% of it. With mistakes it will take the average B enduro rider 45 min. plus. It's kinda like 5 miles of hell in Colorado, but harder for the 2 miles with fewer breaks.

In other words, at 50 I need to rider different trails, but I made the trail so I have to do it occasionally to save face.

I failed to mention that I have a very hard time kickstarting most bikes, even most 250s. I had a 300 which had had the squish set, was jetted well and ran crisp, but it was hard to kick with my weak leg and hurt foot, and it tired me out very quickly in the technical stuff. It was just too snappy everywhere. When I rode it a gear high, I stalled it, although it did have an 8 oz flywheel weight. If I had known about the setup stuff you guys are mentioning I probably would/should have kept it and worked with it.

I am not opposed to trying another 300, but if it's much harder to kick than a 250, thats out. You'd just have to see my right foot. Almost lost it due to an injury and gangrene. It looks like I was tortured and refused to give up the secrets. I also have extensive nerve damage in my right leg and foot from a back injury with partial parylisis of the back of my right leg. And thats only 11 of my surgeries, although most of the others resulted in better function. I bought my 250 on a whim as a spare bike because I could actually kickstart if ok. GG seems to have the internal kick gear ratios, kickstarter length, all worked out so they are just easier to kick than any other 2 strokes. Most guys have no problems with any 250-300, and I can start Yamahas, KTMs, older Hondas, etc. but it sure hurts my foot and leg. Anyway, enough whining:

I intend to discuss what has been mentioned with Jim Cook, our local guru, and maybe whoever I have to build the motor.

What's a 300 head cost, or can I have the 250 head bored? Do I need case work to convert my 250 to a 300? How about an intermediate size like 265-275cc? Pros/cons? If I go with a low compression 300, ported for low end, and an adjustable P V cover set up for low end, would it be noticeably harder to kick than my 250, how much easier than a stock 300? Please remember that for you guys with a normal foot/leg, kicking my 250 is ok, but about at my ability limit. What you don't even notice hurts me like I can't put into words. Sometimes I can simply bump my foot on a rock and the pain is pretty bad.

I used to ride KX 500s and XR 600s with high compression motors, and a KTM 380 SX in the woods. I tried to kick a KTM 380 EXC the other day with a new top end. I started it, but soon stalled it. I pushed it back to the truck rather than kick it again. I'm wimpy and I admit it, but I ain't quittin. I have recently owned some e start bikes, still have one, but after riding this old GG, I realized I was having fun and was faster than on any of my other bikes owned in the last 5 years. Besides, it's kinda cool owning a "fringe" bike. Makes me feel like a Ferrari owner or something. Hey, we need to make up some Ferrari stickers for our bikes! No, thats Italian. Any fast sports cars made in Spain?

[GasGas]

Sounds like you need to test drive a new 300 e-start.

[Nick]

I think you could play with diferent needles and get some of what you want.

[GMP]

I remembered your kickstart issues, thats why I suggested looking into a lower compression 300 with a raised deck height. To add low end to a 250 means more compression, and the 250s don't have the compression bleed hole like the 300s. I'd talk to Ron at RBD about this. A Yamaha YZ kickstart lever is longer and should help too.

300 conversion is very easy. All you need is a 300 cyl, head, piston kit, and gaskets. Bolts right on with no machining, even the powervalve parts swap over between cylinders. You can swap back to a 250 easy at any time.

I assume you have no $$ for a new estart, as you wouldn't be bothering with this.

jgas,

Are you the guy that was known as "two toes gone" by the WUDI ride crew a few years back? Smashed your foot bad at Brock Creek I think? Hope I didn't offend you but you sound familiar.