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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


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Old 10-29-2009, 04:00 AM
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Default Diagnostics Interface

Is there a wiring diagram for the FSE/FSR on here?
Where is the diagnostics / trim port and does anyone know what protocol it uses?

I need to raise my idle a little.


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Old 10-30-2009, 12:46 PM
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Not sure where the connector is located on the FSE/FSR, but what I am sure about is that you will need the Technoresearch VDST software and cable or equivalent. The cable contains a level shifter to interface with the Magnetti Marelli ECU, it is not a straight RS232 interface. Also, on the version I have for the Ducati, I cannot adjust idle speed, just mixture trim, TPS, and diagnostics. The one for the FSRs ECU may be different thouigh.
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMP View Post
Not sure where the connector is located on the FSE/FSR, but what I am sure about is that you will need the Technoresearch VDST software and cable or equivalent. The cable contains a level shifter to interface with the Magnetti Marelli ECU, it is not a straight RS232 interface. Also, on the version I have for the Ducati, I cannot adjust idle speed, just mixture trim, TPS, and diagnostics. The one for the FSRs ECU may be different thouigh.
Most ECU's use a standard protocol although they have varying connectors and pin outs. Many Magneti units use a "K line" protocol which is either KWP2000 or ISO something or other. That means there is a fair chance they can use an interface such as the ELM327 which is for OBD2 to USB. This device will operate with most recent standard protocols such as those mentioned and many others provided you can connect the correct pins. Unfortunately Gas Gas do not give a pin out for the ECU in terms of fully labelling what the pins are. If I get to the bottom of this and get it working I'll let everyone know as it'll be a lot cheaper than the VSDT which is probably the same thing packaged for a specific bike.

Because of this nonsense, which is used to keep things proprietary, European and I believe US legislation has been enacted to force vehicle vendors to use standard protocols and standard connectors and pin outs. Unfortunately it only effects the very latest released vehicles, not sure about bikes, and manufacturers are of course finding loopholes in law to continue their restrictive practices. One day we might be able to buy a cheap tool from the local car parts shop and work with any vehicle.

Last edited by iancp5; 10-31-2009 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:57 AM
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I have dissasembled the interface and drawn out the circuit. The Tx line from the ECU uses part of a standard Maxim 232 Rs232 level convertor. The ECU side of the level converter has an extra pull up resistor giving the line in from the ECU a nominal voltage of +6v. This is with respect to ground which is common to both the ECU and the PC it is connected to. This part is most likely standard TTL to rs232 conversion, ie inverted and voltage converted. The Rx or input line to the ECU is slightly different using a single transistor with a diode clamp. I would guess that in the ECU there is some kind of differential bus tranceiver to either a RS422 or 485 microcontroller interface. As for the communication protocol used it is probably home grown or using a subset of one of the known ones.
With regard to your original idling problem try playing with the throttle body bleed past screw which is the one visible through the plastic cover over the throttle cable on the kickstand side.
The service port is a 3 wire connector located under the seat just behind the tank. Probably identifyable by a rubber blanking plug in it to keep dirt and moisture out.
Hope this helps
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:29 PM
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I assume your talking about the Technoresearch inteface cable dongle. Yeah, I would expect it to be a TTL (ECU side) to RS232 (PC side) translator. Maybe I'll pop mine open and see if its the same. (IAW-5AM ECU). I know the Ducati uses a CAN bus but I don't beleive the comm port is part of it.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:37 PM
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Mine is the older version dubbed MDST. It is Technoresearch's but plastered with Magneti Marelli branding. Even the software licence is with them. Its not Xp or later compatible and the serial lead is just that. The "dongle" which is purely for software protection sits in the parallel port which a lot of modern PCs do not have. I think the more modern one which Nick showed me had the dongle in a usb port.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-gon View Post
I have dissasembled the interface and drawn out the circuit. The Tx line from the ECU uses part of a standard Maxim 232 Rs232 level convertor. The ECU side of the level converter has an extra pull up resistor giving the line in from the ECU a nominal voltage of +6v. This is with respect to ground which is common to both the ECU and the PC it is connected to. This part is most likely standard TTL to rs232 conversion, ie inverted and voltage converted. The Rx or input line to the ECU is slightly different using a single transistor with a diode clamp. I would guess that in the ECU there is some kind of differential bus tranceiver to either a RS422 or 485 microcontroller interface. As for the communication protocol used it is probably home grown or using a subset of one of the known ones.
With regard to your original idling problem try playing with the throttle body bleed past screw which is the one visible through the plastic cover over the throttle cable on the kickstand side.
The service port is a 3 wire connector located under the seat just behind the tank. Probably identifyable by a rubber blanking plug in it to keep dirt and moisture out.
Hope this helps
Do you know which of the pins of the service port is output?
I was planning on trying some standard diag s/w to see if it can interpret the signal but on the only wiring diag I can find (2005 User Manual) it only identifies earth as the middle pin. The outer 2 pins aren't named.

As far as I can find the ECU is a Magneti Marelli IAW 15P not that this helps much as there seems no information on this to be found using Google. A lot of Magneti units use K line (KWP or ISO) protocol so standard s/w might work to read it. Not sure about writing. I'll try the bleed screw but I'd like to be able to read and adjust the ECU myself. Mainly to experiment with getting it to start easier from cold but the initial issue is stalling. The idle was set at 1800 in summer by the dealer but with the cooler air now it's dropped and will stall sometimes when idling. Maybe the IAT's gone - I should check that but it'd be nice to see everything on a screen rather than poking around with a multimeter.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:25 AM
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This banter is way way above my head but I thought you guys, especially Glenn, might be interested to know that my local tuners at Silverback Performance are now able to map the Magnetti Marelli U59 ECU that Ducati uses. No longer limited to only trim, tps etc.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:58 AM
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The output pin from the ECU is numbered pin 3 on the connector. On my bike the wire colour is blue.
Tecnoresearch had the Gas Gas ECU in their Direct Link Race Performance product but when I enquired with them they at first denied it, then said it would not be supported if I bought it and now references to the GG ECU appear to have been removed from their website. My guess is it was a licencing or copyright issue. I am sure the GG ECU is re-mapable by the end user just like all the other Marelli ECUs. The diagnostic tool , apart from making sure all your analogue to digital ducks are in a row (sensors), only allows adjustment of 1 parameter which is disappointing. I dont think it is unrealistic to dump the rest of the eeprom and figure out what the numbers mean or to change them and se what happens!
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:25 AM
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Ross,

Yeah, I read about that on ducati.ms. The Hyper/1098 ECU (IAW-5AM) as well. I suspect its a matter of knowing how to access/unlock the different areas of memory in the device. I imagine this was a closely guarded secret at Ducati being they like to sell DP ECUs for big $$. My brother and I are working on his Buell ECU right now, tweaking a race map for use with a wideband O2 sensor/controller. This stuff is fun. Back when I had my Cannondale I was able to hack the map data structure and edit the maps with a simple hex editor instead of the $1200 software.
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