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Enduro Engine - 2 stroke Cylinder, Piston, Tranny, Bearings, Clutch, Pipes & Silencers, etc.


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Old 01-01-2011, 08:55 AM
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Default GG Clutch basket photos

This post is to help understand the recent evolution of the 200/250/300/400/450/515 outer clutch basket and how it relates to reported "chirping" and "squealing" noises.

First let me say that GASGAS BUILDS ONE OF THE BEST STOCK OFF-ROAD MOTORCYCLE CLUTCHES PERIOD. I've been around dirt bikes for nearly 40 years and can honestly say that you will be pressed to find a better OEM clutch with as much progressive feel as you find in a GasGas enduro motorcycle which of course gets its lineage from the legendary GasGas trials bike clutches.

(BELOW) Basic design of GasGas outside clutch baskets (primary gear set).



The basket on the left has the webbing partially machined away (if you look close you will see a half circle has been cut away) compared to the clutch basket on the right where none of webbing has been removed.

The left basket is from a 2-stroke where the right one is for the 4-stroke (notice the additional oil pump drive gear on the bottom.) Both clutch baskets (2-stroke and 4-stroke) have the same basic casting. The webbing on the 4-stroke basket was left intact to add strength due to that motors greater torque.

Occasionally in the past we have found that the webbing was not machined away on some 2-stroke baskets for various reasons. Drawback to leaving the webbing in place is it can shield the first couple of clutch plates from getting enough oil under heavy loads which is why it was partially machined away.

Also keep in mind that the 4-stroke motor has an oil pump and extra journals machined into some of the clutch parts that help force oil to the center of the clutch plates where the 2-stroke clutch spins through transmission oil only which is why the 4-stroke clutch can get by with all of the webbing.

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(BELOW) Newer style clutch basket from a two-stoke that is found in some motors begining in 2008/2009.



Starting a few years ago we started seeing this newer style clutch basket in some but not all of the newer bikes. Notice how the webbing bridge has been moved up further from the base of the clutch basket so that oil can get at the first few clutch plates easier yet still allowing the extra strength of the webbing.

For a short time that webbing was actually closer to the bottom of the basket like the older design and could be machined away like the older two-stroke style clutch pictured on the very top photo on the left.

Also note in the picture above that the webbing is missing entirely from between two of the fingers (actually another "webbing" from the other side of the clutch is missing as well) to help oil get to the first couple of clutch plates as well.

If you have this style clutch basket and are experiencing some noise under load I can say that I have seen both the bridge removed entirely (see 125 clutch basket below), or a small hole drilled in the bridge, on some of the WEC / EWC bikes. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK as we will not warranty this modification but can say we have seen them done on some of the factory prepped race machines.

If you are going to drill a small hole in each webbing I would suggest angling that hole slightly so that the hole will "scoop" oil as it spins through the transmission oil and force it toward the clutch plates.

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(BELOW) 125 clutch basket



See the pretty 125 clutch basket sans any webbing or bridging. If this is what you are looking for on your 200/250/300/450/515 GasGas you have two choices.

1) Cut away as much clutch basket material as you dare to increase oil flow and oil contact with the inner clutch plates at risk of having one of the clutch basket fingers break,

or

2) Buy an aftermarket clutch basket where the principle described above is part of the original design but comes at a cost of hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

If you've noticed a little sarcasam ("see the pretty 125 clutch basket sans any webbing") then let me explain.

The 125 clutch doesn't need any extra webbing as it doesn't have enough torque to break the fingers off the basket but it does have a need for extra oil to cool the clutch plates which have to be slipped all of the time because that?s the way you have to run a 125 motor.

If you're new to GasGas and you've noticed a little squeaking noise occasionally from you clutch when you're trying to crawl up a nasty hill my answer is "Yep, they do that." Think of it as a reminder from the clutch that "Hey you, you're slipping me an awful lot and if you don't let me cool off a little I'm going to eventually fail."

If you're riding style (clutching style that is) has your GasGas chirping and squeaking away all of the time you probably have to do either of the two mods listed above or again live with it as a remenider that when you hear it the clutch is saying it isn't very happy.

But first I would suggest to try the following:

A) Try and "tune" out the noise with some different transmission oil (see other post here on GasGasRider.org).

B) If that still doesn't work then inspect your clutch for any noticeable problems like a bad clutch basket casting, notches in the clutch basket fingers or a broken or warped clutch plates (metal or fiber). If you've found any of these problems then repair or replace those parts as necessary.

C) Also once you've got the clutch apart pay attention to what direction your metal clutch plates are when you put it back together. Metal clutch plates are pressed out with a die and have a slightly sharp edge on one side. You normally can't see it but you can feel it with your fingers. ALWAYS keep those sharper edges on the same side of the clutch stack, preferably on the outside away from the crank when you put it back together.

Another solution to the problem can be to add more holes to the inner clutch basket which is pictured below with the stock holes.



There are already three hole found grouped evenly around the inner clutch basket in six locations (see photo above) and more can be added at your own risk. This does the most good on 4-strokes that once again have an oil pump and journals that feed those holes with oil but if 18 of them are good, an argument could be made that 36 (or 52 for that matter) may be better.

Lastly if you do any grinding away or drilling on either clutch basket make sure you have removed all burrs that may cause the clutch plates to catch.


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Last edited by Berkyboy; 01-01-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:19 PM
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I notice that it appears they went from a sand/lost foam cast unit...to a pressure die cast version....
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:49 PM
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I'm not up on my manufactoring processes but I do know that a different supplier is used today.
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Zeal Zeal is offline
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Awesome summary!

I have to say the clutch on a GG is good, but not as good as a KTM. I think this is the only thing that is better on a KTM. My GG clutch will not modulate well on those nasty mountain hills where finding optimal traction is desired. The clutch tends to chirp and lurch. I have tried may different oils, and have settled on using the belray gearsaver (the clutch blew up too quickly on other oils).

I am concidering going to a barnett basket and plates. What do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

Zeal
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:32 PM
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Wow, great Post Steve Thx. I'll have to file this one away for later.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:41 PM
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We have received a Barnett basket and presently it is being tested and evaluated.

There are definately a lot of oil options out there and we have had the best luck with lighter weight Mobile 1, Rotella and Golden Spectro oils. But don't get tied into one weight for all types of riding as on long rides, especiallly on very hot days, a heavier 20/50 may be the best choice for that day.

The worst clutch abuse we had on a bike was on the bike we provided for Wayne Braybrook in 2006 for the Last Man Standing where he finished second behind David Knight.

He went through 2 sets of fibers and completely smoked the steel plates.

That bike was a WEC bike and had the clutch basket modified where most of the webbing was removed. Once we got the bike back to to the shop we freshend up both the fibers and the metals (as well as a fresh top end) and all was well again. To this day that clutch basket is still hanging in there.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeal View Post
Awesome summary!

I have to say the clutch on a GG is good, but not as good as a KTM. I think this is the only thing that is better on a KTM. My GG clutch will not modulate well on those nasty mountain hills where finding optimal traction is desired. The clutch tends to chirp and lurch. I have tried may different oils, and have settled on using the belray gearsaver (the clutch blew up too quickly on other oils).

I am concidering going to a barnett basket and plates. What do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

Zeal
I loved the modulation on my 2010 XC250, but it did squawk mightily when really pressed upon. I ran Bel-Ray Gearsaver and changed it every 2 rides/6hours - it came out looking just as good as when I shoe-horned it in through the tiny oil fill hole
I'm planning on running AMSOIL 0w40 this season to see if I can't quell the chirping.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:48 AM
Eric K Eric K is offline
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I have found that the higher viscosity oils are best at reducing clutch squeal. Give Rotella 15W-40 a try. It is a conventional higher viscosity, heavy duty oil with no friction modifiers. It works a bit better than the AmsOil 0W-40.
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:25 PM
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That does work very well, especially in summer. Cheap and available everywhere too.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for the post, it was very informative.
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