Fuel pump relay-where is it?

[GMP]

If I had an FSE/FSR, one of the first things I'd do is repalce those mechanical relays with solid state relays (SSRs). It takes a little custom work but the result is a much more reliable system. I did this to a Cannondale and all of the ledgendary Cannondale electrical gremlins disappeared.

[Qui-gon]

The FSE/FSR relays are Tyco type 1393292-5 or Omron type G8HN-1A2T-R. They are rated for 25A and have adequate overcurrent capability. Neither relay appears to be available direct from the manufacturer.
There is also a version with a 5th connection which can be used. the 3th connection pin 4 is between pins 1 and 2. Pin 4 can be cut off flush as it is not used in our application being the normally closed pin.
I am not sure it would be worth the hassle and expense converting to SSRs as there doesn't appear to be a plug in replacement and the most obvious place for failure is the connector socket rather than the relay itself.

[jenkitchen1006]

hi ya mate ,if the fuel pump is kicking in .check the main pipe on the fuel pump .iv just had that problem.so well worth a check.easy fix

[GMP]

SSRs are immune to vibration and wear. Your right, there is no direct replacement, the harness must be modified to eliminate the connector. There lies one advantage though, on less connector (that is not sealed) to fail. Mechanical relays are generally fine and used on many vehicles for years without issues, but these are generally street bikes and cars. If your having trouble with relays on the FSE/FSR for whatever reason there is a better way.

[Qui-gon]

Check this out:
http://www.components.omron.com/components/web/PDFLIB.nsf/0/0F7403ADF33E949C85257201007DD5C1/$file/C20ssrelays0305.pdf
and you will see what I mean. The only advantage is no wear. They dont like shock or vibration. In this application it will most likely mean a larger unit to satisfy inrush current and it should be mounted on heat sink which will need to be found room for. So not much going for it really...not impossible but a lot of work for a "maybe" gain.
I have used these modules extensively in weighing process control both dc and ac versions and if all goes well they work like a charm but if there is noise on the lines or inadequate supression is used they can be a regular PITA.

[GMP]

I'm an EE and design cryogenic process control instruments and software. I've also used these extensively. The completely encapsulated type are bulletproof physically, they are potted solid state electronics. There are others like the Carlo Rossi that are simply a small PC card snapped inside a plastic case, but I did not use those. Screw terminals see dielectric grease, star washers, loctite, and are coated externally with RTV. Yes, noise suppression is a concern, but from what I found playing with the Cannondale (and in general for that matter) is that if there is enough noise to interfere with the relay there are other issues at hand that should be delt with. The Cannondale had inadequate suppression on the starter solonoid, and the location of the mechanical relay made it prone to vibration problems. The fuel pump was also driven directly from the ECU (Sagem), which had a barely adequate internal driver, and many failed. I added an SSR to buffer the ECU and drive the pump and replaced the main mechanical relay, both mounted on a small aluminum plate under the seat along with properly designed suppression. Yes, the footprint of a properly rated device is larger and it takes some custom work. In the case of the 'Dale it was worth every minute, as it solved ALL the problems. Back in '02 when I did this I also helped a few other 'Dale owners out including another EE and they had similar success, so I know it works, its not speculation. Hey, maybe the FSE/FSR is fine but if I had relay failures from environmental or other causes for sure I would do this mod.

[Qui-gon]

Not sure that vibration would be the main problem on the FSE/FSR. Certainly on mine the relay mountings seem to be quite good. Probably water ingress at the connector and subsequent electrolytic action between the pins is the greatest point of failure. This can easlily be prevented by dielectric grease or even plain old WD. Mine also has a hole in the rear mudguard which carries the rear lamp cables. The hole lines up perfectly with the relays to soak them in a wet environment. It came without any grommet or sealer and required blanking off.

[GMP]

Is the relay connector sealed? It amazes me that on my Ducati the EFI connectors are sealed but the main harness connectors including the relay are open. I sealed every open connector up with silicone. The relay placement on the Cannondale was particularly bad as it was under the rear of the seat on the fender, and saw a lot of Gs when the bike went through rocks and whoops. Some of the MX guys reported the bike would just shut down in a whoop section. A more centralized location would be better.

Perhaps just sealing everything up good and carrying a spare in your tool pack is a good plan unless its a chronic problem.

[Nick]

I've never had a problem after replacing the original relay with the NAPA part.

[Organdonor]

I have a 2007 450FSR,Had the same issue with the fuel pump relay as describe in this thread,and replaced it with the ssr napa auto part#AR-614 and all was cool.However last weekend I had the same thing happen to me once and now I'm worried about getting stuck out in the bush.

I guess my question is are there any other mechanical relays on the bike that should be swapped for a ssr.My bike doesn't have a fan so there is only one under the seat behind the number plate.I've been reading in various threads on this site about other bikes that have other relays behind the light assembly and for the fuel intake line,mind you these are different year bikes.The manual sucks,If I'm having problems finding the seat or the handle bar the manual can help me find that.But anything else and it is useless.

The ssr that replaced the tyco relay has only been on the bike for about 10 rides so it should still be good ???????

Any help would be greatly appreciated