Local Race

[12Bravo]

Originally Posted by Rod Overstreet

In most regions of the US, race promoters offer a "Beginner" class. Sadly, the class is usually won by the local "trail riding champion" who should actually be riding the A class but instead, sandbags the beginner class just to steal a trophy.

Sadly we have a sportmans division and sandbagging from what I have been told if normal.

I don't understanding sand bagging, I would rather not get a trophy or medal and know I was in the right division. I would rather ride with faster better riders as motivation to do better and become better. But I'm weird, must be all the National competitions I have done in another sport......

I watched a local rider I have ridden with join the Open C. I know he is better than that, but to each their own. What ever makes you feel better.

[memphis2857]

The sportsman and trail rider classes are there for the sandbaggers they are non-points paying and the trail rider class doesn't even get trophies. They are intended to give guys that only race every now and again a place to go without jumping in a points paying class. I don't mind an A rider in these classes so much.

At the ironman GNCC there was a factory Beta rider (Justin Sode) in the sportsman A class. Not sure what that was all about but he still didn't even overall the A.M. Race. The girls put it on him! Now in my class (+35 C) I got beat by a pair of buddies that were in their 20's. The guy that won my class actually won 2 NEPG enduros in the 200B class this year. Now why on earth would you sandbag like that? What are you really proving?

At the national level the sandbagging is horrible! The classes are stacked to the max and you have guys winning in the C class that can win in the A class at a local event. Locally I haven't seen too much sandbagging going on. Actually it's the opposite. You have guys riding in the B class that are mid-pack C riders at best.


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[gasgasxc]

I don't know what local races you are talking about.
But.Most decent race associations implement anti sand bragging measures.

If a guy just blisters a c or b class and his times are fast enough to be in the top 10% of the class above them then they would get moved up.
Etc.Etc. The race promoters and local clubs who put on the events, the associations are not retarded.They know what's up.
As far as sportsman classes, beginner classes go etc.etc.
First they usually run less laps or half race etc.So kind of hard to make comparisons there.
And secondly who gives a crap.
The cure for that crap is no trophies.Give them a hat or a t-shirt.

Yeah sand bagging happens.But in the majority of cases it's not as bad as it's made out to be, or there is misinformation or a mistake of some kind was made.
In the majority of cases it's just an excuse to not win or place in an event.
Worry about your ownselves and be honorable , realistic about the class you are riding in.
Ride up a class if you are in doubt.
Ride the A class and you won't have any worries.
Forget trophies, focus on your overall finishes.
Race for fun.That plastic trophy doesn't mean shit.

Racing is about what you put into it.Not what you get out of it.

[memphis2857]

Originally Posted by gasgasxc

I don't know what local races you are talking about.
But.Most decent race associations implement anti sand bragging measures.

If a guy just blisters a c or b class and his times are fast enough to be in the top 10% of the class above them then they would get moved up.
Etc.Etc. The race promoters and local clubs who put on the events, the associations are not retarded.They know what's up.
As far as sportsman classes, beginner classes go etc.etc.
First they usually run less laps or half race etc.So kind of hard to make comparisons there.
And secondly who gives a crap.
The cure for that crap is no trophies.Give them a hat or a t-shirt.

Yeah sand bagging happens.But in the majority of cases it's not as bad as it's made out to be, or there is misinformation or a mistake of some kind was made.
In the majority of cases it's just an excuse to not win or place in an event.
Worry about your ownselves and be honorable , realistic about the class you are riding in.
Ride up a class if you are in doubt.
Ride the A class and you won't have any worries.
Forget trophies, focus on your overall finishes.
Race for fun.That plastic trophy doesn't mean shit.

Racing is about what you put into it.Not what you get out of it.

It's a miracle! You and I actually agree on something. Lol


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[gasgasxc]

And no race association is going to allow guys running times in the upper percentages of the times in the class above them for very long in a points series.

That guy that is keeping you from winning, those races..Are gonna get moved up before any real damage is done.

For example if first pays 75 points.Second pays 65 points.Third pays 55 points etc.
If the first place guy is faster then the top 5 riders in the class above him then he gets moved up.
It doesn't affect the riders below him.Yeah those points are off the table but they are gone for everybody.So if you were the second place guy with 65 points and he gets bumped out.You are points wise in series still getting the highest number of points available to any rider left in your class in that series for that race.

It gets tricky because you can't make a solid case to move a guy up a class unless he can place in the class above him.
You can't dump a guy out of a class who is a solid placer, points chaser, just because he can run with the top 20% of the class above him.
You can't say we are gonna move you up from solid 2nd,3 rd and an occasional 1st to the next class where he will finish somewhere between 12th and 6th for example.
Where would that end.

Also a guy can have a particularly good race where everything came together.
Or it was raced in terrain that suited his abilities and experience based on his riding background.

In most cases guys want to compete in a class by eliminating the"sandbaggers"who are just beating them race in and race out.

[gasgasxc]

Also keep in mind the class above you is full of guys who belong in your class which absolutely dillutes the class above you making it even trickier.

Yes Memphis.I hear you.
I'll save my retort.

Hope this helps you figure it out.
If you have anything of consequence to add from as an experienced racer type try to stay focused on the topic.
In other words.I wouldn't go there with me.

[12Bravo]

Originally Posted by gasgasxc

Hope this helps you figure it out.
If you have anything of consequence to add from as an experienced racer type try to stay focused on the topic.
In other words.I wouldn't go there with me.

I'm a dumb redneck, so what exactly are you getting at with this snide comment?

[gasgasxc]

That doesn't concern you.
Better to stay focused on the topic.
That's the message.
There's nothing snide about it.

Maybe you have something to add to our discussion on sandbagging.
Most in here have demonstrated a willingness to help you with some of the topics and issues you have brought up.
Maybe, and I'm not saying you are.But maybe you want something else from this forum?

I laid it out from my viewpoint.

[12Bravo]

Originally Posted by gasgasxc

That doesn't concern you.
Better to stay focused on the topic.
That's the message.
There's nothing snide about it.

Maybe you have something to add to our discussion on sandbagging.
Most in here have demonstrated a willingness to help you with some of the topics and issues you have brought up.
Maybe, and I'm not saying you are.But maybe you want something else from this forum?

I laid it out from my viewpoint.

Oh....I see.....I'm so sorry to offend the all mighty GasGas "God" that you are. Will you ever forgive me? I sure hope so!

Well, since you laid it "Out" from "Your" view, here's mine. While you might be a smart guy and be knowledgeable with Gasgas and general wrenching on machines. I will gladly ask elsewhere to avoid the argumentative ARROGANT comments that seem to keep coming from your neck of the woods.

As I re-read the post I started every post was positive and on topic until you posted, why is that? Is there some deep resentment towards me? Maybe from another post and this is an outlet be a keyboard commando, perhaps?!

Either way, I will value your input and respect "Your" opinion. If you don't like me, then pass by with a smile knowing you could of helped but didn't for some petty 5th grade argument over sandbagging and snide comments. To each their own.

[gasgasxc]

Did you read the posts I made concerning the sandbagging issue??
On topic and explained from another point of view then the previous posts.
In generalized form.
Not negative and directed at any particular person in any shade of light.

He could have said "agreed" he decided to qualify the remark.
I'm merely suggesting we don't go there and stay on topic.

That being said.
What are your thoughts on the subject.

BTW. We really aren't allowed to make personal attacks in here.
Nothing productive comes from it.