No Spark.. (i think)

[Todd5774]

Bike was running perfect the last time i had it out which was mid december, went to get it out at the weekend and no joy, couldnt get it running for love nor money! Even threatened to junk her and she still wouldnt play!

Its an 02 ec 300 (uk bike)

Things i have done so far..

changed plug
changed fuel
unplugged cutout switch and then replugged in, changed to one off another bike which i know is working.
visably checked wiring for any chafes or rubbing
completely disasembled carb, cleaned and rebuilt it
changed plug cap
unscrewd HT lead and then trimmed down both ends and put back together.

How do you visably check i have a spark, is there a way of grounding the plug to the frame and then kicking the bike over?

In the interim of last riding the bike i did change over to the 2010 bodywork so im wondering if i have disturbed something to do with the ecu or something along those lines. could the coil have just packed up?

Could really do with some help from the collective as have no idea where to go from here other than just replacing the electrical compononts one by one.

[hannesd]

check the spark by putting a plug in the plug cap and hold it against the engine somewhere.
BE CAREFULL not to touch the plug,try to let it rest on top of the cilinderhead or you'll find yourself in a test where you'll findout how quick your hand/arm is
then kick the engine over and look for a spark.

[Todd5774]

Originally Posted by hannesd

check the spark by putting a plug in the plug cap and hold it against the engine somewhere.
BE CAREFULL not to touch the plug,try to let it rest on top of the cilinderhead or you'll find yourself in a test where you'll findout how quick your hand/arm is
then kick the engine over and look for a spark.

Ok tried that this afternoon but i was only cranking the kicker by hand and wasnt getting a spark, do i need to actually kick the bike like im starting it?

[gasgasman]

Kicking by hand with the plug out is OK.
From my experience, you may have a bad ignition coil.

[Todd5774]

Originally Posted by gasgasman

Kicking by hand with the plug out is OK.
From my experience, you may have a bad ignition coil.

Thanks for your input, ive ordered a new coil so will try that and see where i go from there..

[hannesd]

Originally Posted by Todd5774

Ok tried that this afternoon but i was only cranking the kicker by hand and wasnt getting a spark, do i need to actually kick the bike like im starting it?

i'd still try kicking it as you were to start the bike. just to be sure...

[blitz11]

Ugghh. I just saw this.

1. I had a similar problem with my 2002 ec300. Just died coming out of the woods. Bad news. Couldn't debug it on the trail.

2. I hate it when things don't work. So, I am building my own ignition. I took the ignition off of my bike, put it in my lab (aka, basement) on a lathe, and started to study it.

3. The kukosan ignition will deliver a spark at 100 RPM, which is much slower than you see when you kick it.

4. The coil seems to be the weak link. Mine acts flaky on the bench. It works sometimes, and not others.

5. I have tested the stock CDI with an EMGO coil, and it seems to work fine on the bench (spark is just as healthy with this as the stock coil (when mine works)). Emgo coil 2471536 . It's $12. Same coil as was on my XR 250, and it's also found on CR250s (the two-strokes). I bought one just to have a spare. It's a much better deal than the $136 kukosan costs.

6. Did I say that I hate when things don't work? So, i am designing and building my own CDI. I am about 60% done: signal processing, computation & software, and stage 1 of the power supply. I have to do stage 2 of the power supply, then finalize the design, and have some boards built.

(Two power supply stages make it universal.)

It will have some diagnostic LEDs (indicate power in, pulse of the pick up, and spark signal out) so if you're on the trail and you lose spark, you'll be able to tell what is wrong. I hope to have a bike-ready unit for test in the next two months; i am going to make enough for my bike, my kids' bikes, and two or three for GGRiderclub forum members who want to test one.

7. It will be multi-map. I was thinking about a throttle sensor, but a clean way to do it with bark-busters is tough. (Easy Peasy w/o them!). I have three maps going now (soft, medium, and hard).

7. Of course, i thought this would take a month, but I am into month three. If i only didn't have a day job....


Good luck.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by gasgasman

Kicking by hand with the plug out is OK.
From my experience, you may have a bad ignition coil.

Silver had a similar issue, and after going to the trouble of changing out the coil, and chasing his tail, found out he had a bad CDI module. There may be some cross-overs, or else try to find a buddy with a CDI he's willing to lend you and plug it in and try it.

[blitz11]

After Silver's episode, he sent me his dead CDI. It was dead, as I tested it on the bench.

I took my mill and "de-potted" it. Didn't learn a thing.

It could be the CDI box. I suggested the $12 coil as a means to eliminate one variable from the equation. ♠

All that the GG manual has on the ignition is this:

Measurement Colour of wires Resistance
Impulse coil Red - Green 100 +/- 20%
Exciter Black/Red - Red/White 12.7 +/- 20%
Charge coil Yellow - Earth 0.67 +/- 20%
White - Yellow 0.16 +/- 20%

It just tells you about the stator, pulsar, and ignition coil.

My kids' KTM manual has more info; i can provide that if you like. They tell you about kicking the bike, looking for output on the AC output (something like 35 volts AC peak as you kick it, if memory serves). This is consistent with 1000 RPM output.

The culprit is either the box or the coil. Coil can be a cheap, easy test ($12, 5 minutes). Black box, not so much.

good luck.

blitz

[jostby]

Originally Posted by Todd5774

In the interim of last riding the bike i did change over to the 2010 bodywork so im wondering if i have disturbed something to do with the ecu or something along those lines. could the coil have just packed up?

Have you pulled the plastic and the tank yet to see if you pinched something when you put it back together after working on the bodywork? I wouldn't be giving my money away for parts until I was sure I hadn't pinch-grounded any wires. Depending on the wire it would be the same as pushing the kill button (No spark).
You also didn't mention the condition of the spark plug. If the carb is flooding and soaking the plug you won't get any spark either. Just thought I would throw that idea out there also just in case.
Good luck either way. We're all waiting to hear what you find.