NEDW vs. N3CH vs. N3EW

[memphis2857]

Ok so I am still chasing my tail with jetting and, these needle tapers are doing me in. Here is where I am. Last weekend I raced a pretty fast race where I was on the pipe prettying the whole race. My jetting was 175m 42p nedw#2. The bike was good everywhere except when on the main jet where it was bad lean. Yesterday I went out and for a ride and switched the main back to a 178 and the bike was good on the main jet and good right off idle but it was bad rich when transitioning on to the main. I was recommended to run a N3CH with the House of HP pipe but I don't have one handy. I do have a N3EW though.

I know it has been explained a thousand times but I just can't wrap my head around it. How do these needles compare and what do you recommend?


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[Capz85]

I'm having a similar thing between the N3CJ and N3EG

I haven't found any real bad settings but I know the real sweet setting it out the somewhere

[Jakobi]

NExx are Suzuki OEM. 3 tapers, progressive from lean to rich.
N3xx are Yamaha and KTM OEM. 2 tapers only.

The first taper of both are similar, however generally speaking the N3xx needles to be run in a richer clip position or else it falls too lean in the mid (at the end of the first taper). The transition from lean to coming back into fuel on the second taper makes for a stronger 'hit'. The added fuel from a richer clip position means the bottom end makes great torque. So, N3xx is generally a very strong setup - often too much for the average weekend warrior.

The NExx has less variation between the tapers due to there being a 3rd. It also adds more fuel towards WOT (is noticeably thinner to the naked eye).

The straight sections are similar length. The diameter effects up to around 1/8th throttle in conjunction with the pilot, slide, and air screw.

The difference between an N3EW and N3CH is that the N3CH is half a clip leaner, and a step richer on the diameter. If they suggested running N3CH#3 you could try N3EW#3 and it would likely be similar off idle, a bit richer between 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, and not a lot of difference into the top end. It does require a larger main than the NExx needles comparatively due to the taper.

[memphis2857]

Thanks Jake! What do you think about my rich condition with NEDW? It was great with the stock pipe but I just can't get the jetting right with this new pipe. I thought of dropping the NEDW to clip 1 but I am afraid it is gonna be too lean on the bottom to mid.


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[Jakobi]

What main did they recommend?

[memphis2857]

175 but it was way too lean. With the NEDW and the 42p


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[Jakobi]

175 and NExx will be richer than 175 and N3xx.

In saying that, you have the bike and are the best to determine what it needs.

[BSM2]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

NExx are Suzuki OEM. 3 tapers, progressive from lean to rich.
N3xx are Yamaha and KTM OEM. 2 tapers only.

The first taper of both are similar, however generally speaking the N3xx needles to be run in a richer clip position or else it falls too lean in the mid (at the end of the first taper). The transition from lean to coming back into fuel on the second taper makes for a stronger 'hit'. The added fuel from a richer clip position means the bottom end makes great torque. So, N3xx is generally a very strong setup - often too much for the average weekend warrior.

The NExx has less variation between the tapers due to there being a 3rd. It also adds more fuel towards WOT (is noticeably thinner to the naked eye).

The straight sections are similar length. The diameter effects up to around 1/8th throttle in conjunction with the pilot, slide, and air screw.

The difference between an N3EW and N3CH is that the N3CH is half a clip leaner, and a step richer on the diameter. If they suggested running N3CH#3 you could try N3EW#3 and it would likely be similar off idle, a bit richer between 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, and not a lot of difference into the top end. It does require a larger main than the NExx needles comparatively due to the taper.

wow jakobi, that is a perfect explanation!

[memphis2857]

Well I went with the N3EW#3 42p 178 main. The bike started from cold with no choke and very little effort. Idles good. It's a bit rich at 1/8 to 1/4 and then it explodes and runs perfect! It feels like I gained 5 h.p. May drop to clip 2 and see what happens. What do you guys think?


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[Jakobi]

Give it a go. You'll likely find its not as grunty on the bottom end, and will transition like a cut snake. You may or may not like it, but without trying you won't know. It may show you that your ideal setting is actually N3CW#3 which would fall between the two..

Or, you could drop the 42 pilot back to a 40, see if it cleans up your 1/8 to 1/4 throttle burbles and love it the way it is. Once you get down to the nitty gritty, the more personal preference starts to play into it as well.