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Enduro Electrical & Wiring Lighting, Ignition, Wiring, Plugs, etc.


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  #11  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:40 PM
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farmerj farmerj is offline
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gg3 - Sounds like your issue will be fixed with the new relay. That would be good news!

welded the bendix to bendix shaft, pinion (part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.

If you have trouble in the future that pinion shaft might be something to check. I got mine out by applying heat (from a heat gun), then tapping on a hard surface.

You've probably seen the following video (from MotoCenter, Mesa AZ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXjFw9ghDE

My bike sounds just like that - click, thunk, tries to turn over but can't. I did weld the pinion gear to the shaft but that didn't solve the problem for me.

It does leave me with the theory that something in the starter drive system binds when power & torque is applied to it. Like your bike, without the spark plug installed it turns over just fine!

I'm going to see if I can find someone with a good starting bike who will swap starter cases with me for a minute and see if that isolates the problem.

Jeff


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  #12  
Old 09-15-2020, 12:15 AM
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I'm not overly hopeful with the solenoid.For peace of mind I bypassed the relay again & this time got the same fail result as in the video-clunk/buzz/clunk.I think the starter system is a series of failing & mis-aligning parts.As you fix one ,it stresses another.After watching the video I am thinking the pinion may be one of those parts.Does the pinion pull out with the bearing?
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2020, 08:48 AM
Sky Sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerj View Post
I think I will try that too!

Sky, since your bike was starting well before installing the new starter, maybe this is something for you to look at as well.
Will do.
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2020, 04:08 PM
Russell.147 Russell.147 is offline
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Hey guys my mate had this same issue on his 2018 ec300 sixdays and thought it was the starter but ended up getting a new switch cluster (starter switch) and that fixed it (after trying everything else for around 4 months) I have just done my cluster as well and elec start isnt working. Will be swapping out the ec cluster for an xc ignition to prevent this in the future. Hope that helps !
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:25 PM
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Thanks,all input most welcome!
Mine is an XC300 & I tried bypassing the button & kill switch to be sure.Worth eliminating on the EC for sure.
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2020, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerj View Post
gg3 - Sounds like your issue will be fixed with the new relay. That would be good news!

welded the bendix to bendix shaft, pinion (part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.

If you have trouble in the future that pinion shaft might be something to check. I got mine out by applying heat (from a heat gun), then tapping on a hard surface.

You've probably seen the following video (from MotoCenter, Mesa AZ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXjFw9ghDE

My bike sounds just like that - click, thunk, tries to turn over but can't. I did weld the pinion gear to the shaft but that didn't solve the problem for me.

It does leave me with the theory that something in the starter drive system binds when power & torque is applied to it. Like your bike, without the spark plug installed it turns over just fine!

I'm going to see if I can find someone with a good starting bike who will swap starter cases with me for a minute and see if that isolates the problem.

Jeff
I too just ordered a new relay . Waiting for part to get here
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2020, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg3 View Post
After watching the video I am thinking the pinion may be one of those parts. Does the pinion pull out with the bearing?
See this thread:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/sho...=194109&nojs=1

My memory is that when your remove the starter gear (#20 in the picture), the pinion shaft and gear will pull out of the bearing; then you can heat the case and tap the bearing out.
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2020, 11:25 PM
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farmerj farmerj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg3 View Post
I'm not overly hopeful with the solenoid.For peace of mind I bypassed the relay again & this time got the same fail result as in the video-clunk/buzz/clunk. I think the starter system is a series of failing & mis-aligning parts. As you fix one, it stresses another.
I like your phrase "mis-aligning".

While I understand that different people have found success with other fixes - cable upgrade, bigger battery, loose connections, bendix cover, pinion gear welded, frozen bearings, etc. - some of us have done all those things and still have problems.

It seems to me that something must be binding and mis-aligning in the starter case. I have wondered if tolerances on the early units were off, and the shaft bores don't quite line up, or are too tight or too loose.

Either that, or some engines are just harder to turn over for some internal reason! Do we just have tighter engines, maybe with higher compression?

It's interesting that starting problems are rare with the 2019s. I understand that they changed the battery and ignition system - that solves the "crank but no spark" issue. Does anyone know if anything in the starter case changed? (I think not...but then why do the 2019s turn over better?)

Has anyone swapped a 2019 starter case onto a hard-starting 2018 to see if there is any difference?

I like this bike so much that I continue to believe it can be made to e-start somehow

Jeff
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:21 AM
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thanks for pinion removal link.Will try it in the weekend.
My starter had become hit & miss before I did the top end.It gave up completely shortly after.
Is this normal-after trying to start it ,I removed the Bendix cover & on sliding the bendix out heard & felt it retract.So it was stuck engaged in the ring gear?Tried it several times with same result.
Sorry Sky,Solenoid didn't fix it.Potential problem eliminated though.
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