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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


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  #11  
Old 04-16-2011, 12:42 PM
Embalmer Embalmer is offline
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No luck with stieber freewheel. Now my gassers parts are at metalshop and friend of mine who works there is going to fit DRZ sprag to my gasser parts. I'll get parts back next week and will post how it goes and what had to be done...

I refuse to pay the gasgas origal sprag price (over 300? and a months wait) and from now on I can just get Suzuki sprag if it wears out again.


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  #12  
Old 04-18-2011, 06:58 AM
ricknaz ricknaz is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil E. View Post
Usually there is some sort of slip clutch in the starter system that loses friction as time goes by. The slip clutch is often what gives trouble well before the sprag clutch. Some slip clutches can be taken apart and shimmed for higher torque.
This is the answer in most cases. I went through all of this last year. I suspected the torque limiter from the start but I was told by mechanics that it would be the sprag. After spending money on parts and tools I wasn't happy the first time I hit the starter after doing the job only to hear the starter freewheeling again.

There is a simple test to determine whether you have a sprag problem or a torque limiter problem. Remove the torque limiter and draw a line on it like in the photo below. Put it back in and press the starter button until you hear the freewheeling sound. Pull it out and i'll bet the marks don't line up any more.



If you find that you're torque limiter is slipping you can disassemble it and add a washer to increase the pressure on the gears. You can see the washer I added to mine here. It's a bit tricky to line up the 3 large gears when you put it back together. Don't bother trying to line them up when you press them back together. If you put the small gear in a vice you can turn the upper and lower gears individually with a big pair of multi grips until they line up with the centre gear.



I used a bearing puller like this one to do the job.

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  #13  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:30 AM
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What's the function of the slip clutch / torque limiter? Why does it do and why is it necessary?

My starter doesn't appear to have one - by that I mean if it gets stuck on compression it just strains against it.
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:43 AM
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If the engine misfires it is supposed to take the shock out of the system and prevent damage to the starter and cases. Yamaha omitted it on their 03 wr450 and it used to break out the bearing carrier in the very expensive outer casing.
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2011, 04:36 PM
ricknaz ricknaz is offline
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Originally Posted by iancp5 View Post
My starter doesn't appear to have one - by that I mean if it gets stuck on compression it just strains against it.
That means yours is ok. They are not supposed to slip when you hit the starter. I think some of the parts that were designed for the drz400 engine have trouble coping with the 450 and 515 motors.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-gon View Post
If the engine misfires it is supposed to take the shock out of the system and prevent damage to the starter and cases. Yamaha omitted it on their 03 wr450 and it used to break out the bearing carrier in the very expensive outer casing.
Ah I see. I now hope mine has one as a couple of years ago it sheared all the little screws/bolts that hold the starter clutch to the flywheel through backfires and I replaced them with the highest tensile I could find! I must say when it backfires it doesn't sound like anything is slipping. I shall have to look closer next time its apart.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2011, 02:51 PM
Embalmer Embalmer is offline
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No luck fitting the DRZ sprag Friend of a friend had done similiar part fitting on a different bike and it didn't last more than couple of starts. Now I'm back to square one and waiting for local bearing salesman to find suitable sprag for me... I still refuse to pay over 300 ? for such a simple part.

Can I put my bike back together without sprag and starter gears, or will it cause me more trouble? I'm hoping to get my kickstart working tomorrow and would like to try if I could get it started with that(I've never managed to kickstart it when engine is cold )
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2011, 05:08 PM
ricknaz ricknaz is offline
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Embalmer, unless your sprag is severely worn I would put money on the torque limiter being the problem. As a reference point, HERE is a ducati sprag that was unable to start the engine. You will notice that the spring that holds the sprag together is completely destroyed. You can also see that there is severe wear on the inner race(the sleeve on the drive sprocket). If yours isn't as bad as that one then I will guarantee that the torque limiter is the culprit.

Don't do what I did and put it together with all new parts only to find that there was nothing wrong with your original sprag.

Unfortunately you will have to put it all back together to test the torque limiter.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embalmer View Post
No luck fitting the DRZ sprag Friend of a friend had done similiar part fitting on a different bike and it didn't last more than couple of starts. Now I'm back to square one and waiting for local bearing salesman to find suitable sprag for me... I still refuse to pay over 300 ? for such a simple part.
sprag bearings do go bad. it is quite obvious when they do - pieces will start falling out

is there a number on the bearing? sprag bearings are expensive no matter how you look at it - but i've replaced 2 on other bikes (a nordic track! and a duc pantah) - i'm 100% sure there is an interchange for it - probably torrigton. there is no way it is gasgas specific.
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2011, 05:41 PM
Embalmer Embalmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknaz View Post
Embalmer, unless your sprag is severely worn I would put money on the torque limiter being the problem. As a reference point, HERE is a ducati sprag that was unable to start the engine. You will notice that the spring that holds the sprag together is completely destroyed. You can also see that there is severe wear on the inner race(the sleeve on the drive sprocket). If yours isn't as bad as that one then I will guarantee that the torque limiter is the culprit.

Don't do what I did and put it together with all new parts only to find that there was nothing wrong with your original sprag.

Unfortunately you will have to put it all back together to test the torque limiter.
Well, I'm pretty sure that the sprag is my problem And EC400 sprag is different than Ducati or DRZ sprag. It doesn't have that spring descriped on that ducati threat but instead it has a small spring on each "tooth"(you can see one of them in the middle of the "cage").

Here's a picture to show why I'm so sure that sprag is causing my problem :


It was in that shape when I opened it up, only couple of tooth were still on their place. And before anyone wonders why it's in such a bad shape, it has a lot to do last summers engine brakedown.
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