The LTR needle and the CCK have the same straight section diameter. The LTR needle has a longer straight section diameter length so when you run the LTR needle in the #3 clip it is leaner at off idle than the CCK in the #3 clip. That is the point of the CCK needle. At idle, it is the same diameter as the LTR needle so you get a clean idle. As you open the throttle, the CCK enters the taper sooner making it richer giving the motor a more torqy feel that is easier to control. At about 1/2 throttle the CCK starts to become leaner than the LTR needle and this helps the 300 rev out better. The N3EG does the same thing but is a multi taper so it gives the motor a MX hit in the mid range.

As for the two Maps, The leaner the jetting is, the bigger the differance is in the two maps. With rich jetting it is hard to feel any differance between the two. With lean jetting, there is a big differance. I jet for maximum power in the MX mode and then use the rain mode to mellow out the power for the tight stuff. Dave

I understand all this, you just confused me at first with that 2.66 mm number. The CCK and LTR -0 are the same dia. but should be 2.695 mm, unless something has changed recently. The -1 had a leaner taper, and the original LTR needle from '01 had an even leaner dia of 2.705 like a CCL. Les doesn't make these from scratch, they start life as a standard Keihin needle. This is also true of the JD needles.

Hey pobit I sent you a pm ... did you get it?? umm or did I hit the wrong button when I sent it off???

Anyway who makes and where can I get one of these cck needles???

Standard Keihin needle you can get from Sudco or Carb Parts Warehouse.

thanks
I'll have to give one a try.

Just to clear things up, James at JD Jetting designs his own needles and they are a triple taper needle design. The needles made by Keihin for the PWK carbs are a single taper needle.

Also, I do have the CCK needle in stock.

Ron

I received a few emails asking me to clarify how these needles differ in feel so below is a fuller description. These settings are for sea level, 70 degrees, tested in a 06 DE300 and a 06 DE250. The bikes are American DE models with the lighter ignitions, stock GG pipes and FMF Turbine Core II mufflers. The motors are stock with stock base gasket height and RBD head mods. The stock #7 slide was used for all needles. Pump gas 91 octane, oil mixed at 40:1

45 pilot LTR-0#3 175 main:
Slightly lean at 1/8 to 1/4 throttle giving the bike a hit at off idle and then the richer end taper makes the bike feel weak from mid to top in the 300. The motor will idle cleaner with a 42 pilot but this makes the 1/8 to 1/4 throttle hit even harder. Works better in the 250 than the 300 as the 250 is still able to spin up with the richer end taper and the hit at off idle isn't as strong. If LTR would radius the transition from the straight section to the taper to soften the hit, it would be a good needle for the 250.

42 pilot, CCK#3 178 main:
Very smooth, easy to control, torqy power from bottom to top with no hit anywhere. Works in both 250 and 300. Good choice for those that prefer throttle control for picking your way through rock gardens or tough survival rides. This needle also works well for novice racers who get tired before the end of a race and struggle with throttle control.

42 pilot N3EG#3 175 main:
This needle is for racers and gives the 300 the most power with a strong mid to top pull. My 300 has the dual ignition and this needle in the MX mode makes for a lot of mid to top power. For slower, tight riding, I ride with the ignition in the rain mode and this takes the edge off the power and makes it more controlable. In cold weather you will need to use the 1/2 clip richer N3CG#4 with a 178 main or you will get a little rattle from mid to top. These needles do not work in the 250 as these needles are too lean on the end taper and make the 250 too revvy. I race A class and this was my favorite for my type of riding.

45 pilot JD red#3 175 main:
This needle in the 300 feels like the N3EG needle on the bottom but does not pull as strong from mid to top in the 300. You get a clean bottom pull with a more torqy, mellow mid to top pull. A little too mellow for my taste. In the 250, it gives the bike a torqy mid to top and doesn't hurt acceleration. This would be my first choice in the 250 although at $80.00 for the kit, it is way over priced. For about $7.00 you can make your own crude JD red copy from a DDN needle. This needle has the same straight section diameter and a 45 degree taper simular to the JD's end taper. Chuck it up in a Dremel and sand the transition from the straight diameter to the taper at 34 degrees. This will make it a multi taper with the first taper at 34 degrees and the second taper at 45 degrees. The JD red is slightly lean in cooler weather at off idle so If your going to make your own, A DDL may be a better choice with it's smaller straight diameter. DDK has the same diameter as the JD blue.

Hope this helps, Dave

Ron,

I think JD himself said the JD Blue for the PWK38 kit is based on a DDK with additional taper cuts. This is a good needle.

Glenn, yes the DDK needle and the JD Jetting blue tip needle have the same straight section diameter and both of them have a very similar L1 length, but this is where the similularities end. Both needles have very different taper profiles (DDK = single taper, JD = triple taper). If you were to measure the JD needle as a over all straight taper (average from start to the end of it) it would be....., well only close to the "D" taper needle.

Comparing the DDK needle taper to the JD taper, the DDK needle taper starts out richer (JD needle starts out leaner than the DDK). At the L1 point they are the same. There is a point in the middle of the taper that is close to being the same. At the wide open end of the needle taper the DDK needle is richer than the JD needle (JD needle is leaner than the DDK).

Another thing to take note of, is that the taper on the JD needle starts sooner than the DDK needle. Even though both needles have a similar L1 length, the LI length is NOT the starting point of the taper. The L1 length is a point measured on the taper where it is measured to be 2.515 mm in diameter to the top of the clip #1 groove.

I hope I said this in a way that can be understood by most of you out there.

Ron

In my 04 DE300 I had the LTR -0 needle and it worked ok but had a hit in the midrange that was a bit too much in the woods at times. :eek:
I took Pobit's advice and went with a CCK needle clip position #3, MJ178, PJ 42 and it worked GREAT! :D
Very smoooooth power in the woods!
Thanks a lot Dave!