RK Tek head

[Wypipo]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

Search the interwebs on ktm starters.. You'll be swamped.. It's all the same shitty design... on theirs, and on the gassers.

You haven't specifically said how it fails.. or if you have I have missed it.

Is it binding and not turning the engine over? is it turning over but not firing?

When cold it will bind and make the high pitch whining noise.
sometimes it will spin but not fire.
It will never start when cold.
It will never start when hot if its in gear
it only starts when hot if I kill it and immediately restart and in neutral. If I kill it and wait a couple minutes it wont start. if I kill it in gear and try to restart immediately it wont start.
It also wont start on the first kick anymore, now it takes 2 or sometimes 3 kicks. When I first got the bike it would start on the first kick. This is not a big deal but wondering if this could be related in any way.

This is really bumming me out. The bike is amazing everywhere else but this starter is getting frustrating. I was told by a rep and a dealer before I bought the bike that it would be fine with the new CDI and cables, but it seems the problem goes way beyond that. its too bad GasGas wont do more about the issue other than reflashing the CDI and giving you one cable then leaving the rest up to you. Ive been very vocal about how great this bike is but its getting hard when realizing how in depth the starter issue is.

[dzhitshard]

Originally Posted by Wypipo

When cold it will bind and make the high pitch whining noise.
sometimes it will spin but not fire.
It will never start when cold.
It will never start when hot if its in gear
it only starts when hot if I kill it and immediately restart and in neutral. If I kill it and wait a couple minutes it wont start. if I kill it in gear and try to restart immediately it wont start.
It also wont start on the first kick anymore, now it takes 2 or sometimes 3 kicks. When I first got the bike it would start on the first kick. This is not a big deal but wondering if this could be related in any way.

This is really bumming me out. The bike is amazing everywhere else but this starter is getting frustrating. I was told by a rep and a dealer before I bought the bike that it would be fine with the new CDI and cables, but it seems the problem goes way beyond that. its too bad GasGas wont do more about the issue other than reflashing the CDI and giving you one cable then leaving the rest up to you. Ive been very vocal about how great this bike is but its getting hard when realizing how in depth the starter issue is.

I'm concerned that you're looking at 2 separate issues when I make assumptions about what you're trying to describe with the terms you're using.

I was very frustrated when I got my bike and tackled the same issues you're apparently dealing with. It sucks, I'm sorry it's such a hassle on the 18s.

You make several won't start statements in the post I quoted. Are some of them won't crank vs won't start?

When you mention that it's now harder to start even when kicking it makes me wonder if the temps you were riding in previously have changed and the jetting is close enough to be effected by it.

I believe that you are possibly employing far too much faith in the "210cca" and Shoria battery in general. You can help yourself a lot by metering your issues.

A couple quick videos show the difference between an advertised 220cca battery that was acting the same as the OEM unit (the oem unit starts a 2017 KTM 300 just dandy with no issues FWIW)
You can see that the batteries began with the same charge but did absolutely not act the same once they reached coup d foute and began recovering.

Video 2 was same day, same circumstances, cold bike that video 1 was. Drastically different results.

220cca battery https://youtu.be/iuvaMotUd6E

the fix
https://youtu.be/UltP7VpXFeo

[Wypipo]

Originally Posted by dzhitshard

I'm concerned that you're looking at 2 separate issues when I make assumptions about what you're trying to describe with the terms you're using.

I was very frustrated when I got my bike and tackled the same issues you're apparently dealing with. It sucks, I'm sorry it's such a hassle on the 18s.

You make several won't start statements in the post I quoted. Are some of them won't crank vs won't start?

When you mention that it's now harder to start even when kicking it makes me wonder if the temps you were riding in previously have changed and the jetting is close enough to be effected by it.

I believe that you are possibly employing far too much faith in the "210cca" and Shoria battery in general. You can help yourself a lot by metering your issues.

A couple quick videos show the difference between an advertised 220cca battery that was acting the same as the OEM unit (the oem unit starts a 2017 KTM 300 just dandy with no issues FWIW)
You can see that the batteries began with the same charge but did absolutely not act the same once they reached coup d foute and began recovering.

Video 2 was same day, same circumstances, cold bike that video 1 was. Drastically different results.

220cca battery https://youtu.be/iuvaMotUd6E

the fix
https://youtu.be/UltP7VpXFeo

Ok so yes what is happening to me is the same thing as your ?210 CCA? battery video. This is what happens 99% of of The time. If it is warm sometimes it will crank but not start. I don?t think it has anything to do with jetting.
I was assuming the battery was good since lots of people claim to have luck with weaker batteries. I don?t want to just keep buying batteries if it?s not going to fix it. I will remove the covers and see if anything is bound up, bench test the starter, and then buy a battery if everything else checks out.

[dzhitshard]

I am not a fan of Shoria batteries for a number of reasons but that's for another thread and I'll go further in depth on why it's a bad idea to cross the car batteries on lithium type batteries there instead of derailing this thread further with it.

The second video is short 30ish seconds and the display shows that the voltages were very close at the beginning of the test. It also cranks it over perfectly in the same cold start situation where the first struggled.

I'd look at your battery with a meter to check the voltage you're starting with and see how it recovers to these two examples. If its anything like past Shoria performance ive seen it'll probably look a lot like the multimeter display in the first video.

It was a hard pill to swallow when I replaced the second battery. It was recommended by a someone in the stickied starter fix thread because a popular retailer here listed it on their web page as the fix. You saw the results it gave me, then video of his bike popped up on Facebook cranking miserably.??? I guess its pretty subjective on what works "great."
Caveat, that battery is starting my buddy's old ktm300 well as long as he doesn't do a lot of restarts in a short time period.

[Jakobi]

Get some lead acid gel mat into it and crank on brother!

[dzhitshard]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

Get some lead acid gel mat into it and crank on brother!

This is a 2T race bike with no powered accessories and no reason to need any of the deep cycle advantages of AGM.

I work with AGM etc daily & spend a lot of time on Battery University etc for work related research.

An AGM may be a better option for some ADV or rally racers for their given circumstances and the equipment that they power. For our off-road use there isn't a more efficient option for high current short duration loads than one of the Lithium series & that's why the good ones are the gold standard.

Unfortunately some manufacturers make some not so good Lithium products and they give a foul impression to too many riders.

I'd bet a good cold pint that the OP was blinded by that brand's marketing
and is actually having an issue with output current lower than advertised.

[Wypipo]

Originally Posted by dzhitshard

This is a 2T race bike with no powered accessories and no reason to need any of the deep cycle advantages of AGM.

I work with AGM etc daily & spend a lot of time on Battery University etc for work related research.

An AGM may be a better option for some ADV or rally racers for their given circumstances and the equipment that they power. For our off-road use there isn't a more efficient option for high current short duration loads than one of the Lithium series & that's why the good ones are the gold standard.

Unfortunately some manufacturers make some not so good Lithium products and they give a foul impression to too many riders.

I'd bet a good cold pint that the OP was blinded by that brand's marketing
and is actually having an issue with output current lower than advertised.

I looked up the battery in your video and it?s rated 240 pulse cranking amps which says that it means it?s a rapid discharge. The other battery I?m looking st is the antigravity 240 CCA. On this bike would either one be better over the other? I have the XC model so no lights or speedometer or anything else