I've about had it with Shivers.

[Ud_luz]

OK, I 'm guessing that there really isn't anybody that can make Shivers work. I had one set of 07's revalved by a well know company and sent a brand new spare set from an 07 to Les.

While both performed somewhat better than stock they both feel like every single little rock is square edged and they still tend to blow through the stroke. It's becoming so annoying I've been riding my 08 KTM. Heck the WP's work better stock than the revalved Shivers.

What's my solution here for plush forks that don't blow through the stroke riding in extremely rocky, technical terrain? I'm ready to just pitch the Shivers in the trash.

Thanks.

[husley]

Wife had a set of shivers on her Beta. Two tuners and four revlalves and never got em right...tried sub tanks also without sucsess

My Beta/Shivers and a different/new Tuner: worked great!
Used him on our last several bikes

[Keg]

Is "blows through the stroke" the latest catch phrase in bikes. What does it mean? That your fork is compressing on hits?? That is what it should do. Valving is speed sensitive and springs hold the bike up.

It seems strange that the bike is harsh on the small stuff but compresses well (blows through the stroke). What is your weight and your sporing rates. I would guess your springs are too light.

[Ud_luz]

Originally Posted by Keg

Is "blows through the stroke" the latest catch phrase in bikes. What does it mean? That your fork is compressing on hits?? That is what it should do. Valving is speed sensitive and springs hold the bike up.

It seems strange that the bike is harsh on the small stuff but compresses well (blows through the stroke). What is your weight and your sporing rates. I would guess your springs are too light.

Les did the last set with .44 springs which would have been right when I told him 195#. I'm down to 180 now. Here's the issue. Running down rocky trails they are extremely harsh and tend to bounce around quite a bit. When you launch off a 3 or 4 foot ledge going down hill the forks almost immediately bottom, disconcerting to say the least. I ride right off the rear fender on downhills due to this.

Les did a nice job making them work much better than stock but these forks are just flat out uncomfortable to ride. I raised the oil level to 120 which helped slightly but these forks feel like a 2x4 as far as harshness goes. When two different tuners set them up, both of which made them work much better than stock, and they still feel very harsh on all the rocks I have to assume part of it is the nature of the forks themselves.

I am by no means an aggressive rider but I do ride very challenging trails. Something just isn't right when the stock WP on an 08 feels much more planted. I've had a couple of people much more experienced than I try adjusting the compression/rebound and sag with both sets of forks and they walk away rather unimpressed.

The Sachs rear I had locally tuned on the other hand I'm quite pleased with.

[bchatt]

I also have an '07 with shivers. I have experimented alot with these forks. I could post my shim stacks when I get home, if that would be of any help. My first thought is I don't find these at all harsh... have you wound your comp clicker all the way out ? also, I have found an oil level of 105 to be much better. Yours sounds low. I am running 7.5wt Motul.
The other thought is be sure it is not harshness transferred from the rear - it can be hard to differentiate. GMP rides what sounds like similar terrain to you, and He is very happy so I'm sure it is do-able. ( The shim stacks he has posted are quite different to mine).
Sorry if my reply seems a bit garbled. What I am trying to say is that a good result is definately achievable, I believe.

Funnily enough, I dislike my Sachs rear - I have a softer spring and even with both HS and LS clickers wound all the way out (soft) I still find the rear a bit harsh, especially when I'm not riding hard !

[Dave]

Has anyone tried the Race Tech Gold Valves in the 45mm 'Zokes?
I know a couple of folks that don't care for these forks.

[jayc]

Originally Posted by Ud_luz

When you launch off a 3 or 4 foot ledge going down hill the forks almost immediately bottom, disconcerting to say the least. I ride right off the rear fender on downhills due to this.

That's is not a valving problem. Jump landings are controlled by low-speed circuitry, and is dominated by clicker settings. Go in a few clicks on your compression clickers.

JayC

[moto9]

Originally Posted by jayc

That's is not a valving problem. Jump landings are controlled by low-speed circuitry, and is dominated by clicker settings. Go in a few clicks on your compression clickers.

JayC

I disagree, it is a valving issue...and addressed thru valving, jump landings are a high speed issue.
I think he may have too much float, along with a incorrect setup for what he rides ,,,just MHO.
It took a lot of valving changes to get the marz forks on my 08 300 to work how I want them to, I suffered through a lot of sacrificing plushness vers firmness.
When the fork was plush on the roots, it would hammer over logs, g-out and drop offs.
When I stiffened up the BV stack to compensate it was too harsh on the roots.
My first valve theory was wrong, I now know the firmness is found in the midvalve (IMHO), so I went back to the plusher BV stack and controlled the fork stroke by way of the mid valve.
The midvalve is like a paraschuite, the trick is to get it to open at the correct time...too much float would cause the fork to dive too quickly into the stroke and give a harsh feel, too little and the fork in essence would lock / deflect and again feel harsh.
So, I went with stiffer springs to get the fork to ride higher in the stroke.
Set the BV up with a 2 stage woods/lighter stack, using a 10, face shim so it would open quickly for the roots/rocks.
Then the MV I also used a 10 shim for the same reason, 2 stage stack, stiffer MV spring which also helps it ride higher in the stroke, then I limited the amount of float.
The more I tightened up the float the plusher the ride and more compliant the fork became....originally I had way too much float, I thought getting more oil to flow would make it plusher....was I wrong.
I lowered my oil level until I felt the bottoming resistance was good for what I ride.
Also I had to really stiffen up the rebound stack and I mean a lot.
After being in and out of the fork 6-8 times I am super pleased with the ride quality.

Just a note: I went thru the same thing with my CRF 250, it was great on the MX track, but I was invited out to a outdoor style track, lots of bumps and I got hammered....I had the float set at .20, I opened it to a .75 and what a difference.
My point is the right mid valve set up is cruical to a well performing fork...One of the best tuners I know said the mid valve is where the magic is found...and I agree!

[wasp4banger]

Originally Posted by Ud_luz

OK, I 'm guessing that there really isn't anybody that can make Shivers work. I had one set of 07's revalved by a well know company and sent a brand new spare set from an 07 to Les.

While both performed somewhat better than stock they both feel like every single little rock is square edged and they still tend to blow through the stroke. It's becoming so annoying I've been riding my 08 KTM. Heck the WP's work better stock than the revalved Shivers.

What's my solution here for plush forks that don't blow through the stroke riding in extremely rocky, technical terrain? I'm ready to just pitch the Shivers in the trash.

Thanks.

If you're throwing them away, throw them my way.

I like mine, had several re-valves now to get them how I want them. Might be worth posting your shim stacks on here and someone may be able to say what worked for them or suggest which way to go next.
From what little I know suspension feel is very subjective and right for me might not be right for someone else.

[Ud_luz]

Originally Posted by wasp4banger

Might be worth posting your shim stacks on here

Well, I guess I have my weekend project.